Just first pass a bill that eliminates chain migration which is like 40% of the annual legal intake. That alone solves almost half the problem. We can debate the rest later.
I’m afraid that it will require a constitutional amendment. Regardless, Congress should pass a law and let the originalist Supreme Court see what it says about it.
The U.S. education system has never been good. Remember how much Steve has discussed how the military found so much unidentified talent due to the draft in World War II.
He is not right. If his model worked, India would be a global power house. Our prom kings won wars and put men on the moon. They still can and still do. American kids don’t need to memorize spelling bee words.
Vivek’s tweet was a resentment screed about prom kings and Zach Slater. I’d encourage you to read it in its entirety and understand that he’s either deeply ignorant of the American ethos or deeply dishonest. Him believing that kids not worshiping Screech is a sign of cultural decline is embarrassing and only confirms Ann Coulter’s critique of him. He doesn’t even have enough longevity in this country to understand what cultural forces drove the American greatness that made his family want to come and Leech off it.
Imagine living somewhere for 5 minutes and declaring yourself an authority on what’s wrong with the place. I’m a recent dual citizen of another successful first world nation too - I don’t portend to tell them that I know how to manage their country better. Vivek should demonstrate the same humility.
The far left is heavily populated by Indians who despise whites and form the high IQ vanguard who most effectively prosecute racial grievances. Amy Wax is right about the turmeric monsters - please listen to her on Glenn Loury. I work with thousands of them - the honest ones share in my loathing. Reddit is full of posts from them begging us to stop allowing this to happen to our countries.
Not that I have seen an episode since they first aired, but the funny part about invoking Screech is that I don't remember him as being portrayed as particularly bright, although he was geeky. He was more of the type that Eddie Deezen had played in the movies; Deezen was so unpleasant to look at that they refused to cast him in Revenge of the Nerds, instead casting more conventionally-attractive actors and nerding them up.
The smart one on the show was Jessie who was also good looking although within the context of the show she wasn't "the good looking one"; that was Kelly
Yet more evidence that Vivek is having his Spielberg “meet the fablemans” moment and prosecuting his personal resentments rather than contributing any meaningful or insightful vision for the American people.
His critique of American culture is particularly interesting given the grotesque deficiency of the culture he’s advocating that we need to import.
The culture of Indian strivers is such that they are content to allow their under 5 mortality rate to be 3x that of Brazil and Mexico and 6x that of the US and China. They feel no sense of obligation to improve the lot of those in their own country - they simply elevate themselves. If their culture doesn’t compel them to help prevent their neighbors’ children from starving to death, I see no evidence they’d take anymore interest in advancing the interests of Americans. I’ll take an entire nation of Zach Morris cads who make sure kids don’t die of diarrhea on the streets over spelling bee champs who feel no obligation to end a culture of murdering women accused of witchcraft in 2024.
Indians have the caste system in their blood. They are exploiters of their own and utterly racially nepotistic. There is nowhere Indians have influence and authority where they don't bring in more of their own people and push out non-Indians.
The former PM of Singapore said to get richer it needs to be creative, that creativity is lacking. That's why very few North Asians are CEOs in the west, they're in accounting, great administrators, not creators.
Americans pretend they want prole to be compete academically, especially in STEM, but they actually do promote mediocrity, as Ramaswamy says. They want us to compete with China, India, etc., but deride parents who raise their children to succeed , claiming the children don’t get to have a “real childhood”, or will miss out in socialization, and lack “people skills”
The upper middle class in no way promotes mediocrity, and if the Indian model of forcing kids to memorize spelling bee words and cheat on tests while fostering no intellectual curiosity were effective, India and China would have dominated us long ago. India can’t even figure out how to bring cases to trial within 85 years or deworm its population and China is still largely a third world economy.
I imagine many Indians with smarts and creativity still leave for the West as they did when it was socialist.
The same people who complained about North-South inequality are just fine with us draining Southern brains. They must now finally believe most of the Third World will always be behind.
China's economy is actually in pretty good shape, notwithstanding all the antiSinitic propaganda. Probably better than ours. But I still 'liked' your comment anyway.
The upper middle class want their children to be “well rounded”, participate in extra-curriculars, the lacrosse team, student council, and get into an Ivy via photo ops at a soup kitchen, Varsity Blues, and writing essays about overcoming adversity. Only a few really promote true excellence
What’s wrong with that..? That same profile put men on the moon and built a functioning first world civilization, something Indians have never and will never be able to do.
We continue to have both just as we have for generations. That they have to fight for spots with kids whose parents forced them to memorize pointless vocabulary words is a bigger problem than our kids spending time playing lacrosse. No one aspires to be Chinese or Indian - it’s our well rounded ness that has made us what we are.
Buzz Aldrin was a football star in school by the way and Neil Armstrong was not some nebbish dork. The ignorance you all show of the American cultural ethos is just embarrassing.
Out of curiosity, what’s the earliest war your ancestors fought in for this country? Not implying anything but I am quite curious. This sort of myopia is indicative of either ignorance or lack of history here.
getting straight As isn't necessarily excellence. Are you learning the subject because you find it fascinating or just what you need to pass the next test? If the goal is to achieve a nice middle class existence, grinding away to pass the tests is fine.
If we are talking about the few people who create new stuff, new technology, the kind of nerds I admire, I think they are mostly not to be found among the tiger children. They are smart kids who get obsessed, kids who find the world fascinating because of their internal sense of wonder. Test crammers can't compete with them
The original controversy sparked by Musk was in fact a matter of two sides discussing two very different problems. Vivek.. well, anyone surprised by his position is also probably surprised when their dog pisses on a fire hydrant or the proverbial face eating leopard eats their face.
Companies like Musk’s I’m sure do struggle to recruit talent and only hire the best and the brightest.
The real scandal isn’t hiring at Tesla or Space X - it’s hiring at Wal Mart, Verizon, Blue Cross Blue Shield, or UPS. Over the last 15 years I’ve consulted in Dev Ops for about half of the Fortune 100, and nearly all have followed the Disney model - laying off Americans or purging them via attrition, only to replace with very low skilled, fake credentialed Indians. Entire floors of 100s of keyboard monkeys and every single one is Indian with maybe a few first generation tokens to act as intermediaries. This is done not just to save money, but to expand the power of middle managers and advance their careers. It is a productivity killer and of course overtly illegal if anyone bothered to look. Companies like Nike have had some minor trouble with this, but company like ATT and Verizon have pulled thousands of CS jobs off the table in cities like Dallas and Atlanta and Phoenix and at most these jobs require a Bachelors, arguably less.
Like many high IQ execs in pure tech, Elon has no exposure to how low IQ, low trust, and low productivity these teams are at legacy corps. Vivek on the other hand absolutely knows and supports it wholeheartedly. If it wasn’t obvious after the Ezra Klein podcast, it certainly is obvious now that Vivek thinks America is successful by accident. He inadvertently made Ann Coulter’s point for her by only citing media consumption habits from the 90s and failing to recognize that our Homecoming Kings won world wars and put men on the moon. Unlike Indians and the Chinese - we can do both. At no point in our culture - even at its zenith - did our youth worship Screech. They worshipped Jon Wayne and Elvis and built a civilization while Vivek’s people were still burning widows and prosecuting witches.
The thing that fascinates me about the Indian managers I have dealt with is how they consider the products, the actual things that the business wants them to do, as irrelevant? Generic? It's like, sure we make widgets, or something, but make widgets, fail to make widgets, it doesn't matter. The important thing is the relationships and alliances you build to support you, and getting responsibility for P&L and getting people under you.
I've had this very argument with an Indian friend of mine. We were in a Department that failed spectacularly, I'd guess nine figures blown over a period of six years, nothing (no exaggeration) to show for it. The Department was eventually disbanded and the head (also Indian) politely shown the door.
My explanation- he wasted a huge amount of the company's money and never came close to making the products he promised.
My Indian friend's explanation -- that doesn't matter. His problem was on the way up he didn't build proper alliances across the company, so when he had a setback (ha) they were all aligned against him and took out their knives.
What you're describing is, in part, the classic dynamic of Western high-trust and Non-Western low-trust.
That you "remain flabbergasted" tells us that you are indeed a Western and carry our civilizational-ethical code. The "Vivek Ramaswamies" out there, of course, do not have that civilizational-ethical code.
See also: "The persistence of “high trust” in Europe west of the Hajnal Line and the future of Western uniqueness in the 21st century"
My dentist of thirty years recently retired and sold his practice. To an Indian woman. She fired all the hygienists and office ladies and replaced them.
She also found five cavities in one of my daughters and three in another.
I found a new dentist. Neither daughter had even a single cavity. That worthless grifter would have drilled holes in my daughters’ healthy teeth.
I had two different white dentists find fake cavities on me in the late 20th century. Opted against having the second set drilled. Later verified as no cavities by a third dentist and decades later, no troubles.
Told the story to a friend, discovered he had the same experience. Have seen recent threads on Reddit and HackerNews with scores of stories of dental perfidy! Then my cousin told of a warning from a dentist friend of his about this very thing.
In conclusion, it's a characteristic of the field, and picking a dentist of what you might consider a more ethical group is no guarantee.
Oh, and by the by, the second dentist was a friend of my dad's and a gentile white man.
I agree it is a tell that I have western ethics, and though it has oft worked to my disadvantage, I sleep well.
Beyond that I am just confused how an entire society could expect to function if everyone agrees that occasionally happening to accomplish the intended task is just incidental, maybe a good bullet point for a power point.
In the 20th century I read that one of the great advantages America had over Europe was our attitude about failure. Supposedly in Europe one big failure could ruin your career, but in America it would be viewed as good experience.
The department head I describe above was able to fail up through a couple companies landing in a big position in a much larger international company. I wonder if this kind of thing will stop when the boards of directors and CEOs figure out they are dealing with a different culture and the old heuristics for selecting executive talent no longer apply.
Or will old company simply rot sooner in the new world and new competitors will destroy old giants after a decade instead of after a century?
For some reason I can't access the comment box at wordpress (maybe my adblocker blocks it?), so I'll comment here.
The trust map was very interesting. A funny outlier is Poland, which doesn't group with Catholic Mitteleuropa and even less with with its Orthodox neighbors, but is instead lodged in Latin America. It's as if they wanted to go towards Germany but got lost and ended up in Brazil.
Yes, thank you. And thank you for transcribing my comment, and the notes about the Inglehart-Welzel map's iterations, which I imagine could make a nice timelapse gif or vidclip.
I can see the comments on Wordpress, but when I click "comment" or "reply", no comment field appears. The page formatting does change slightly, suggesting that a script was activated, but evidently not the part required for comment submission.
> "Entire floors of 100s of keyboard monkeys and every single one is Indian with maybe a few first generation tokens to act as intermediaries."
I my limited observation, the two big white-collar H1B/outsourcing models are
1) what you describe with a mass of keyboard subcons led/represented by one with good English and US citizenship, who may be related by blood/caste/village to the horde he is surreptitiously importing, and
2) smaller coding gangs of East Asians, maybe with a few Second World Euros, high-caste LatAms, and/or a loose subcon or two, not generally blood-related to one another, led/intermediated by a nerdy native white guy appointed by management for the task rather than him being organic to the gang.
The former model is more viscerally offensive as well as less productive, but the latter model is no friend of the native white either.
Twitter/X uses model 2), for example. The last help desk you called probably uses model 1).
What’s remarkable is that with model 1, there isn’t even a net cost savings because it takes between 3-5 Indians to match the efficiency and work output of one white guy - and those Indians are clearing $150k or more even before the costs of their H1B and subsequent PERM sponsorship. There are obviously other incentives at play which likely get laundered in large institutions so whoever is calculating ROI doesn’t even realize the cost bleed is happening.
The only succor model 2 provides is that most of the profiles you cite will intermarry and assimilate eventually. In a cloudy sky you’ll welcome any sunlight at all.
As an aide, since you work in this ecosystem you must have gotten a laugh at the 2020 “Americans mispronounce my name!” grievance hyperbole.
It’s notable when an Indian pronounces my very common American name correctly.. and they choose to live in this culture. Yet I had to listen to entitled Brahmin zoomer girls whining that some 70 year old secretary in suburban Georgia can’t pronounce some 17-consonant family name from the sub continent.
We can't have the bottom quintile feel bad about themselves--not that they do, it's the nice white ladies who are upset by both groups' failure to achieve.
"Of course, I’ve stolen “Fewer But Better” from Billy Wilder’s line for 1939’s Ninotchka"
"Hear all ye angels, progeny of light, Thrones, dominations, princedoms, virtues, powers. Still govern thou my song, Urania, and fit audience find, though few."--John Milton
You can tell that that paragraph was written by an immigrant or a not very well assimilated child of immigrants. Immigrant culture in the US indeed prizes academics and achievement, and doesn't understand all-American things like sports and social popularity. Many immigrants can't relate to all-American things like fraternities and sororities, social popularity, TV, and sports. Those things seem dumb and "mediocre" to them as Vivek also demonstrates, but that's just how American culture works. American culture doesn't venerate nerds and geeks (i.e. intelligence) the way other cultures do around the world. It venerates good looks, social popularity (e.g. jocks, Greek life), athletics/sports, and the like -- the more shallow things in life. My immigrant parents have also expressed surprise at how Americans don't value academics and are more into sports and entertainment. It's superficial and shallow, and not very high-IQ, but that's just the way America is.
Ross Douthat's response to Mr. Vivek "Let 'Em All In, You Lazy-and-Inferior Idiots; They're Elite-Brown Immigrants" Ramaswamy's immigration master-plan:
Top .1% of engineering talent. Fine. You don't need a hundred thousand business analysts or many other jobs that Silicon Valley and major banks are hiring for. Young Americans can do those jobs if given the opportunity.
A short review of the rise of anti-American, non-American (resentful of the White-West's success), pro-immigration, slick-talking con-man Vivek Ramaswamy who has marketed a Based Brown Guy to success, May 2020 to Present:
Nonsense. Musk's razor was honed at Twitter (80% RIF). Vivek's the PR guy who'll sugarcoat Musk's bitter pills. Both are needed and truly in service to the benefit of the USA.
I did not suggest Musk would cut the feds that deeply now, a year from now, or ever. I simply stated that Musk has walked into an organization, seen the deadwood there, and acted with all due haste to remove the headcount bloat while maintaining and even improving the organization's products and services. The federal government is a vast organization that provides myriad opportunities for significant reductions in mission, scope, and operations.
Also, budget deficit reduction is not the only goal. Trimming the overreach of the federal government into operational and regulatory areas better served by state and local governments ("laboratories of democracy") or done away with entirely to enhance the freedom of Americans are goals well worthwhile even if they save not a dime (but they will save MANY dimes!).
“To sum up Vivek’s heartfelt plea: America needs a culture where the spelling bee champ gets the hot blonde girls!”
I respond :
Kind of similar to that horrible Pakistani Neo Con man Dinesh D'Souza , who s managed to bed/we’d at least 2 attractive ha White wives .
Most of these Indian/pakistani Made it in America GOP Conservatives like this guy, Dinesh D , S Carolina GOP Governor , UN Ambassador representing the Israeli Likud party Niki Haley - these East Indian Asians usually do a fake Christian conversion - whereas Christians in India and Pakistan are < 3% .
Has anyone attempted a serious calculation of the TOTAL demographic impact, since ca. the 1980s, on the USA of the H1-B visa? Those awarded the visa, plus dependents and subsequent normalizations, family-chain migrants, children born?
It's going to be, I assume, well into the millions. Perhaps 4%+ of total USA-wide resident-population in the mid-2020s derives ultimately from H1b-visa issuances --- from one visa-program alone. Compare to the ca. 50% full-White-Christian population-stock for those under 40 or so. It's a real demographic hit.
The absolute-numbers are not the whole story. For one, these sorts of people create and reinforce bridgeheads, by which others can/do/will get in, "by hook or by crook." ("And it's all done LEGALLY," as Derland Jey Blumpf likes to say.) So there is a momentum factor as a multiplier on the total-number. Second, many of them are of the Elite-Striver type who will burrow into a system to extract benefits if possible but not much contribute to the commons (as with the much-discussed, anti-traditional-Western-model "Tiger Mother" phenomenon). H1b-stock USA-residents' impact at the higher-ends could easily be several times that 4% estimate, say more like 15-20%.
We need these numbers as a quantifiable response to "Vivek Ramaswamy" and similar political-Frankenstein-monsters out there, the people demanding that mediocre white losers shut up and accept Elite-Asian Supremacy and open immigration forever. Because Global Elites like himself are much, much better than mediocre lazy-idiot White natives.
The response should be: "What is the trade-off, Mr. Based Brown Guy, if we do things your way? What is the demographic 'hit' we have to take? Here we see that your way of doing things has caused 'x' new 'Americans' and helped create and sustain 'y' cultural enclaves we didn't want or need since 'z' year."
Maybe "Wage-GDP captured by H1-B's" would be a useful metric. And would provide the stark "Who voted to give xx% of our wages away to foreigners?" media-penetrating soundbite.
Maybe "publicly-traded corporate-sector wage-GDP captured" would be even better and easier to find/calculate.
A broad base of people -- White Americans who are in a position to know, primarily -- have been saying for years, sometimes in heated or over-animated terms, that the median H1b-visa holder does not contribute meaningfully to productivity, at least not in anything beyond an extremely short term (i.e., they DO NOT drive productivity growth behind the USA's per-capita-GDP gains).
If it's a negative net-value for these people on net, even in shorter-term dollars-and-cents terms, the whole system would be deeply irrational. One would forgive skeptical inquiry: "Why would they be hired at all? The market doesn't work like that." People wouldn't believe it.
The response usually given is, yes, something else is at work. The polite answer: It's indentured servitude (i.e., "fatcats" and others love them because they are a postmodern 'tech' version of servile foreign labor, so it's short-term gains for a specific company in a specific few-year window, maybe, at mid- and (definitely) at long-term expense, with the expenses imposed on the high-trust White host society.
The bolder answer is: ethnic nepotism, and a lot of the people you need on your side will tend to get squeamish here.
The boldest answer is: both of the above plus a whole system of anti-White incentives operating within the larger system that emerged by the late-20th century. That new system is marked by the real influence of "elite-diasporic ethics," which have been imposed on a "host" population (the core and 'carrying' element of which is, of course, White-Christians). Elite-diasporic ethics is EXACTLY where Vivek Ramaswamy is "coming from" (literally and figuratively).
Vivek is a political opportunist, nothing more. He will betray Trump.
There's an old video floating around of Vivek and Pete Buttblug 25 years ago being "randomly selected" students who are questioning presidential candidates. He's part of the system.
I don't Vivek just like I don't trust a snake like Vance, and just like I didn't with Pence. All three are slimy lifetime political guys, even when they did private sector jobs. Pence's ultimate betrayal -- which proved me right-- came when he certified a rigged vote, came down hard on January 6th protesters, and then became a Never Trumper.
Trump is really bad at picking loyal members of his administration. Why he didn't make Mike Flynn V.P. or something major when Flynn was convicted on a plea deal (overturned on appeal) for Trump is beyond me. Flynn is the type of hard loyalist and stand up guy Trump should be close with, not Swamp Rats like Vivek, Pence, and Vance.
JD Vance has praised the magical, wizard-like Global-Elite Immigrant phenomenon. As corroborating evidence he cites his wife and mixed-race sons. Vance is not anti-White, however. Con-man Vivek and others are anti-White, as now revealed for so many to see. Vance is more like "coopted."
Vance and Vivek are the same: they will say and do anything for the Globalists. Vivek may appear to have more ethnic loyalty than Vance, but both would toss that all aside in a heartbeat if TPTB told them to.
Vance is a bleached Vivek, Vivek is a tanned Vance.
Unfortunately TPTB can't be trusted to not fuck over the American people so the only acceptable policy is no immigrants
Just first pass a bill that eliminates chain migration which is like 40% of the annual legal intake. That alone solves almost half the problem. We can debate the rest later.
That in conjunction with ending birthright citizenship
I’m afraid that it will require a constitutional amendment. Regardless, Congress should pass a law and let the originalist Supreme Court see what it says about it.
No. It would not. I despise NRO but this article outlines why this is not the case
https://www.nationalreview.com/2015/08/birthright-citizenship-not-mandated-by-constitution/
Just returning to the old system of the family goes home and the child decides citizenship when they're 21 would help.
"Old system"? When, where, what happened to it?
Didn't they tell us that chain migration was a myth? Even if they didn't, doesn't it seem like the kind of thing they would say?
If it’s a myth, there shouldn’t be any objections to outlawing it, right? 😉
You'd think that would follow, yet it never does :)
Seems obvious.
The US Education system has been torched by fringies on the Left. Let's fix that.
Problem is you need an entire Elhi (+college) cycle to prove out the fix. That's a LOT of time and a LOT of people under the bridge.
The U.S. education system has never been good. Remember how much Steve has discussed how the military found so much unidentified talent due to the draft in World War II.
Vivek is right. The hillbillies in the elegy could use a little tiger mom sauce. A lot, actually.
He is not right. If his model worked, India would be a global power house. Our prom kings won wars and put men on the moon. They still can and still do. American kids don’t need to memorize spelling bee words.
Okay, I don’t know where all this “prom king” is coming from, ha
Vivek’s tweet was a resentment screed about prom kings and Zach Slater. I’d encourage you to read it in its entirety and understand that he’s either deeply ignorant of the American ethos or deeply dishonest. Him believing that kids not worshiping Screech is a sign of cultural decline is embarrassing and only confirms Ann Coulter’s critique of him. He doesn’t even have enough longevity in this country to understand what cultural forces drove the American greatness that made his family want to come and Leech off it.
Imagine living somewhere for 5 minutes and declaring yourself an authority on what’s wrong with the place. I’m a recent dual citizen of another successful first world nation too - I don’t portend to tell them that I know how to manage their country better. Vivek should demonstrate the same humility.
I don’t really understand the general loathing of Indians lately. I have only ever had good experiences with them, outside of motels in New Jersey.
The far left is heavily populated by Indians who despise whites and form the high IQ vanguard who most effectively prosecute racial grievances. Amy Wax is right about the turmeric monsters - please listen to her on Glenn Loury. I work with thousands of them - the honest ones share in my loathing. Reddit is full of posts from them begging us to stop allowing this to happen to our countries.
I think “heavily populated” is a reach
The Desi are the shock troops for the progressive left. Since they came from the Brahmins, they just want to be the order givers.
Indians in America vote Democratic at almost higher rates than blacks. They love big government and hate whites.
I found Pakistani men to be the most full of S lying boaters around.
I have found them to be cheats in business. There's an excellent article over at American Renaissance by an Indian writer denigrating his own nation.
It’s a must read. Similar voices are on several subreddits relating to immigration in the U.S. and Canada.
You could have stopped at 'I don't really understand'.
Purity spiral among the woke right.
Excellent response, A Villa, on the points highlighted by Sailer but with more forceful directness than Sailer allowed himself this day.
Not that I have seen an episode since they first aired, but the funny part about invoking Screech is that I don't remember him as being portrayed as particularly bright, although he was geeky. He was more of the type that Eddie Deezen had played in the movies; Deezen was so unpleasant to look at that they refused to cast him in Revenge of the Nerds, instead casting more conventionally-attractive actors and nerding them up.
The smart one on the show was Jessie who was also good looking although within the context of the show she wasn't "the good looking one"; that was Kelly
Yet more evidence that Vivek is having his Spielberg “meet the fablemans” moment and prosecuting his personal resentments rather than contributing any meaningful or insightful vision for the American people.
Vivek is a perfect example of why 'merit immigration' doesn't work.
His critique of American culture is particularly interesting given the grotesque deficiency of the culture he’s advocating that we need to import.
The culture of Indian strivers is such that they are content to allow their under 5 mortality rate to be 3x that of Brazil and Mexico and 6x that of the US and China. They feel no sense of obligation to improve the lot of those in their own country - they simply elevate themselves. If their culture doesn’t compel them to help prevent their neighbors’ children from starving to death, I see no evidence they’d take anymore interest in advancing the interests of Americans. I’ll take an entire nation of Zach Morris cads who make sure kids don’t die of diarrhea on the streets over spelling bee champs who feel no obligation to end a culture of murdering women accused of witchcraft in 2024.
Indians have the caste system in their blood. They are exploiters of their own and utterly racially nepotistic. There is nowhere Indians have influence and authority where they don't bring in more of their own people and push out non-Indians.
The former PM of Singapore said to get richer it needs to be creative, that creativity is lacking. That's why very few North Asians are CEOs in the west, they're in accounting, great administrators, not creators.
Americans pretend they want prole to be compete academically, especially in STEM, but they actually do promote mediocrity, as Ramaswamy says. They want us to compete with China, India, etc., but deride parents who raise their children to succeed , claiming the children don’t get to have a “real childhood”, or will miss out in socialization, and lack “people skills”
The upper middle class in no way promotes mediocrity, and if the Indian model of forcing kids to memorize spelling bee words and cheat on tests while fostering no intellectual curiosity were effective, India and China would have dominated us long ago. India can’t even figure out how to bring cases to trial within 85 years or deworm its population and China is still largely a third world economy.
I imagine many Indians with smarts and creativity still leave for the West as they did when it was socialist.
The same people who complained about North-South inequality are just fine with us draining Southern brains. They must now finally believe most of the Third World will always be behind.
How many of them will humbly acknowledge that their homeland sucks and concede that our way of doing things delivered in ways theirs doesn’t?
China's economy is actually in pretty good shape, notwithstanding all the antiSinitic propaganda. Probably better than ours. But I still 'liked' your comment anyway.
False
The upper middle class want their children to be “well rounded”, participate in extra-curriculars, the lacrosse team, student council, and get into an Ivy via photo ops at a soup kitchen, Varsity Blues, and writing essays about overcoming adversity. Only a few really promote true excellence
What’s wrong with that..? That same profile put men on the moon and built a functioning first world civilization, something Indians have never and will never be able to do.
That profile excludes the nerds who put those men on the moon, and most of the astronauts themselves
We continue to have both just as we have for generations. That they have to fight for spots with kids whose parents forced them to memorize pointless vocabulary words is a bigger problem than our kids spending time playing lacrosse. No one aspires to be Chinese or Indian - it’s our well rounded ness that has made us what we are.
Buzz Aldrin was a football star in school by the way and Neil Armstrong was not some nebbish dork. The ignorance you all show of the American cultural ethos is just embarrassing.
Out of curiosity, what’s the earliest war your ancestors fought in for this country? Not implying anything but I am quite curious. This sort of myopia is indicative of either ignorance or lack of history here.
It was we nerds who assumed the Space Center look, not the other way 'round.
getting straight As isn't necessarily excellence. Are you learning the subject because you find it fascinating or just what you need to pass the next test? If the goal is to achieve a nice middle class existence, grinding away to pass the tests is fine.
If we are talking about the few people who create new stuff, new technology, the kind of nerds I admire, I think they are mostly not to be found among the tiger children. They are smart kids who get obsessed, kids who find the world fascinating because of their internal sense of wonder. Test crammers can't compete with them
The original controversy sparked by Musk was in fact a matter of two sides discussing two very different problems. Vivek.. well, anyone surprised by his position is also probably surprised when their dog pisses on a fire hydrant or the proverbial face eating leopard eats their face.
Companies like Musk’s I’m sure do struggle to recruit talent and only hire the best and the brightest.
The real scandal isn’t hiring at Tesla or Space X - it’s hiring at Wal Mart, Verizon, Blue Cross Blue Shield, or UPS. Over the last 15 years I’ve consulted in Dev Ops for about half of the Fortune 100, and nearly all have followed the Disney model - laying off Americans or purging them via attrition, only to replace with very low skilled, fake credentialed Indians. Entire floors of 100s of keyboard monkeys and every single one is Indian with maybe a few first generation tokens to act as intermediaries. This is done not just to save money, but to expand the power of middle managers and advance their careers. It is a productivity killer and of course overtly illegal if anyone bothered to look. Companies like Nike have had some minor trouble with this, but company like ATT and Verizon have pulled thousands of CS jobs off the table in cities like Dallas and Atlanta and Phoenix and at most these jobs require a Bachelors, arguably less.
Like many high IQ execs in pure tech, Elon has no exposure to how low IQ, low trust, and low productivity these teams are at legacy corps. Vivek on the other hand absolutely knows and supports it wholeheartedly. If it wasn’t obvious after the Ezra Klein podcast, it certainly is obvious now that Vivek thinks America is successful by accident. He inadvertently made Ann Coulter’s point for her by only citing media consumption habits from the 90s and failing to recognize that our Homecoming Kings won world wars and put men on the moon. Unlike Indians and the Chinese - we can do both. At no point in our culture - even at its zenith - did our youth worship Screech. They worshipped Jon Wayne and Elvis and built a civilization while Vivek’s people were still burning widows and prosecuting witches.
The thing that fascinates me about the Indian managers I have dealt with is how they consider the products, the actual things that the business wants them to do, as irrelevant? Generic? It's like, sure we make widgets, or something, but make widgets, fail to make widgets, it doesn't matter. The important thing is the relationships and alliances you build to support you, and getting responsibility for P&L and getting people under you.
I've had this very argument with an Indian friend of mine. We were in a Department that failed spectacularly, I'd guess nine figures blown over a period of six years, nothing (no exaggeration) to show for it. The Department was eventually disbanded and the head (also Indian) politely shown the door.
My explanation- he wasted a huge amount of the company's money and never came close to making the products he promised.
My Indian friend's explanation -- that doesn't matter. His problem was on the way up he didn't build proper alliances across the company, so when he had a setback (ha) they were all aligned against him and took out their knives.
I remain flabbergasted.
What you're describing is, in part, the classic dynamic of Western high-trust and Non-Western low-trust.
That you "remain flabbergasted" tells us that you are indeed a Western and carry our civilizational-ethical code. The "Vivek Ramaswamies" out there, of course, do not have that civilizational-ethical code.
See also: "The persistence of “high trust” in Europe west of the Hajnal Line and the future of Western uniqueness in the 21st century"
https://hailtoyou.wordpress.com/2024/12/23/the-persistence-of-high-trust-in-europe-west-of-the-hajnal-line-and-the-future-of-western-uniqueness-in-the-21st-century/
My dentist of thirty years recently retired and sold his practice. To an Indian woman. She fired all the hygienists and office ladies and replaced them.
She also found five cavities in one of my daughters and three in another.
I found a new dentist. Neither daughter had even a single cavity. That worthless grifter would have drilled holes in my daughters’ healthy teeth.
I had two different white dentists find fake cavities on me in the late 20th century. Opted against having the second set drilled. Later verified as no cavities by a third dentist and decades later, no troubles.
Told the story to a friend, discovered he had the same experience. Have seen recent threads on Reddit and HackerNews with scores of stories of dental perfidy! Then my cousin told of a warning from a dentist friend of his about this very thing.
In conclusion, it's a characteristic of the field, and picking a dentist of what you might consider a more ethical group is no guarantee.
Oh, and by the by, the second dentist was a friend of my dad's and a gentile white man.
I agree it is a tell that I have western ethics, and though it has oft worked to my disadvantage, I sleep well.
Beyond that I am just confused how an entire society could expect to function if everyone agrees that occasionally happening to accomplish the intended task is just incidental, maybe a good bullet point for a power point.
In the 20th century I read that one of the great advantages America had over Europe was our attitude about failure. Supposedly in Europe one big failure could ruin your career, but in America it would be viewed as good experience.
The department head I describe above was able to fail up through a couple companies landing in a big position in a much larger international company. I wonder if this kind of thing will stop when the boards of directors and CEOs figure out they are dealing with a different culture and the old heuristics for selecting executive talent no longer apply.
Or will old company simply rot sooner in the new world and new competitors will destroy old giants after a decade instead of after a century?
Or will the US become constitutively mediocre?
The boards of directors will fill up with sub-cons. Problem solved!
love the comment, sub-suicidal about the prediction :(
For some reason I can't access the comment box at wordpress (maybe my adblocker blocks it?), so I'll comment here.
The trust map was very interesting. A funny outlier is Poland, which doesn't group with Catholic Mitteleuropa and even less with with its Orthodox neighbors, but is instead lodged in Latin America. It's as if they wanted to go towards Germany but got lost and ended up in Brazil.
Can you see this:
https://hailtoyou.wordpress.com/2024/12/23/the-persistence-of-high-trust-in-europe-west-of-the-hajnal-line-and-the-future-of-western-uniqueness-in-the-21st-century/#comment-52128
Yes, thank you. And thank you for transcribing my comment, and the notes about the Inglehart-Welzel map's iterations, which I imagine could make a nice timelapse gif or vidclip.
I can see the comments on Wordpress, but when I click "comment" or "reply", no comment field appears. The page formatting does change slightly, suggesting that a script was activated, but evidently not the part required for comment submission.
> "Entire floors of 100s of keyboard monkeys and every single one is Indian with maybe a few first generation tokens to act as intermediaries."
I my limited observation, the two big white-collar H1B/outsourcing models are
1) what you describe with a mass of keyboard subcons led/represented by one with good English and US citizenship, who may be related by blood/caste/village to the horde he is surreptitiously importing, and
2) smaller coding gangs of East Asians, maybe with a few Second World Euros, high-caste LatAms, and/or a loose subcon or two, not generally blood-related to one another, led/intermediated by a nerdy native white guy appointed by management for the task rather than him being organic to the gang.
The former model is more viscerally offensive as well as less productive, but the latter model is no friend of the native white either.
Twitter/X uses model 2), for example. The last help desk you called probably uses model 1).
My experience has been the same.
What’s remarkable is that with model 1, there isn’t even a net cost savings because it takes between 3-5 Indians to match the efficiency and work output of one white guy - and those Indians are clearing $150k or more even before the costs of their H1B and subsequent PERM sponsorship. There are obviously other incentives at play which likely get laundered in large institutions so whoever is calculating ROI doesn’t even realize the cost bleed is happening.
The only succor model 2 provides is that most of the profiles you cite will intermarry and assimilate eventually. In a cloudy sky you’ll welcome any sunlight at all.
As an aide, since you work in this ecosystem you must have gotten a laugh at the 2020 “Americans mispronounce my name!” grievance hyperbole.
It’s notable when an Indian pronounces my very common American name correctly.. and they choose to live in this culture. Yet I had to listen to entitled Brahmin zoomer girls whining that some 70 year old secretary in suburban Georgia can’t pronounce some 17-consonant family name from the sub continent.
When Vivek gives us deep cultural analysis, his referent would appear to be Annie Hall.
We can't have the bottom quintile feel bad about themselves--not that they do, it's the nice white ladies who are upset by both groups' failure to achieve.
The nice white ladies are upset on their behalf.
Because they don't really care that much themselves.
Also, some of the ladies aren't really so nice.
"Of course, I’ve stolen “Fewer But Better” from Billy Wilder’s line for 1939’s Ninotchka"
"Hear all ye angels, progeny of light, Thrones, dominations, princedoms, virtues, powers. Still govern thou my song, Urania, and fit audience find, though few."--John Milton
1940 young Brit: Please, sir, I want to join the Few.
Sorry, there are far too many already.
https://youtu.be/UwDMwSQv5KY
You can tell that that paragraph was written by an immigrant or a not very well assimilated child of immigrants. Immigrant culture in the US indeed prizes academics and achievement, and doesn't understand all-American things like sports and social popularity. Many immigrants can't relate to all-American things like fraternities and sororities, social popularity, TV, and sports. Those things seem dumb and "mediocre" to them as Vivek also demonstrates, but that's just how American culture works. American culture doesn't venerate nerds and geeks (i.e. intelligence) the way other cultures do around the world. It venerates good looks, social popularity (e.g. jocks, Greek life), athletics/sports, and the like -- the more shallow things in life. My immigrant parents have also expressed surprise at how Americans don't value academics and are more into sports and entertainment. It's superficial and shallow, and not very high-IQ, but that's just the way America is.
And yet, America has succeeded in ways that all these other countries, from which the immigrants come, haven't & likely won't.
Ross Douthat's response to Mr. Vivek "Let 'Em All In, You Lazy-and-Inferior Idiots; They're Elite-Brown Immigrants" Ramaswamy's immigration master-plan:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1872341885790126252.html?utm_campaign=topunroll
The men who stormed the beaches at Normandy weren't doing it by doing code. IT is so overrated.
And then field modifying their tanks and other vehicles to deal with the hedgerows in northern France. American mechanical genius in action.
Top .1% of engineering talent. Fine. You don't need a hundred thousand business analysts or many other jobs that Silicon Valley and major banks are hiring for. Young Americans can do those jobs if given the opportunity.
A short review of the rise of anti-American, non-American (resentful of the White-West's success), pro-immigration, slick-talking con-man Vivek Ramaswamy who has marketed a Based Brown Guy to success, May 2020 to Present:
https://www.stevesailer.net/p/how-to-select-fewer-but-better-immigrants/comment/83155030
Trump's reliance on people like Musk and Ramaswamy points to an administration that's going to turn its back on its own voters and crash and burn.
Nonsense. Musk's razor was honed at Twitter (80% RIF). Vivek's the PR guy who'll sugarcoat Musk's bitter pills. Both are needed and truly in service to the benefit of the USA.
An 80% RIF would be a disaster and do almost nothing to reduce the budget deficit.
I did not suggest Musk would cut the feds that deeply now, a year from now, or ever. I simply stated that Musk has walked into an organization, seen the deadwood there, and acted with all due haste to remove the headcount bloat while maintaining and even improving the organization's products and services. The federal government is a vast organization that provides myriad opportunities for significant reductions in mission, scope, and operations.
Also, budget deficit reduction is not the only goal. Trimming the overreach of the federal government into operational and regulatory areas better served by state and local governments ("laboratories of democracy") or done away with entirely to enhance the freedom of Americans are goals well worthwhile even if they save not a dime (but they will save MANY dimes!).
“To sum up Vivek’s heartfelt plea: America needs a culture where the spelling bee champ gets the hot blonde girls!”
I respond :
Kind of similar to that horrible Pakistani Neo Con man Dinesh D'Souza , who s managed to bed/we’d at least 2 attractive ha White wives .
Most of these Indian/pakistani Made it in America GOP Conservatives like this guy, Dinesh D , S Carolina GOP Governor , UN Ambassador representing the Israeli Likud party Niki Haley - these East Indian Asians usually do a fake Christian conversion - whereas Christians in India and Pakistan are < 3% .
Has anyone attempted a serious calculation of the TOTAL demographic impact, since ca. the 1980s, on the USA of the H1-B visa? Those awarded the visa, plus dependents and subsequent normalizations, family-chain migrants, children born?
It's going to be, I assume, well into the millions. Perhaps 4%+ of total USA-wide resident-population in the mid-2020s derives ultimately from H1b-visa issuances --- from one visa-program alone. Compare to the ca. 50% full-White-Christian population-stock for those under 40 or so. It's a real demographic hit.
The absolute-numbers are not the whole story. For one, these sorts of people create and reinforce bridgeheads, by which others can/do/will get in, "by hook or by crook." ("And it's all done LEGALLY," as Derland Jey Blumpf likes to say.) So there is a momentum factor as a multiplier on the total-number. Second, many of them are of the Elite-Striver type who will burrow into a system to extract benefits if possible but not much contribute to the commons (as with the much-discussed, anti-traditional-Western-model "Tiger Mother" phenomenon). H1b-stock USA-residents' impact at the higher-ends could easily be several times that 4% estimate, say more like 15-20%.
We need these numbers as a quantifiable response to "Vivek Ramaswamy" and similar political-Frankenstein-monsters out there, the people demanding that mediocre white losers shut up and accept Elite-Asian Supremacy and open immigration forever. Because Global Elites like himself are much, much better than mediocre lazy-idiot White natives.
The response should be: "What is the trade-off, Mr. Based Brown Guy, if we do things your way? What is the demographic 'hit' we have to take? Here we see that your way of doing things has caused 'x' new 'Americans' and helped create and sustain 'y' cultural enclaves we didn't want or need since 'z' year."
Maybe "Wage-GDP captured by H1-B's" would be a useful metric. And would provide the stark "Who voted to give xx% of our wages away to foreigners?" media-penetrating soundbite.
Maybe "publicly-traded corporate-sector wage-GDP captured" would be even better and easier to find/calculate.
How about value-added productivity:
A broad base of people -- White Americans who are in a position to know, primarily -- have been saying for years, sometimes in heated or over-animated terms, that the median H1b-visa holder does not contribute meaningfully to productivity, at least not in anything beyond an extremely short term (i.e., they DO NOT drive productivity growth behind the USA's per-capita-GDP gains).
If it's a negative net-value for these people on net, even in shorter-term dollars-and-cents terms, the whole system would be deeply irrational. One would forgive skeptical inquiry: "Why would they be hired at all? The market doesn't work like that." People wouldn't believe it.
The response usually given is, yes, something else is at work. The polite answer: It's indentured servitude (i.e., "fatcats" and others love them because they are a postmodern 'tech' version of servile foreign labor, so it's short-term gains for a specific company in a specific few-year window, maybe, at mid- and (definitely) at long-term expense, with the expenses imposed on the high-trust White host society.
The bolder answer is: ethnic nepotism, and a lot of the people you need on your side will tend to get squeamish here.
The boldest answer is: both of the above plus a whole system of anti-White incentives operating within the larger system that emerged by the late-20th century. That new system is marked by the real influence of "elite-diasporic ethics," which have been imposed on a "host" population (the core and 'carrying' element of which is, of course, White-Christians). Elite-diasporic ethics is EXACTLY where Vivek Ramaswamy is "coming from" (literally and figuratively).
Vivek is a political opportunist, nothing more. He will betray Trump.
There's an old video floating around of Vivek and Pete Buttblug 25 years ago being "randomly selected" students who are questioning presidential candidates. He's part of the system.
I don't Vivek just like I don't trust a snake like Vance, and just like I didn't with Pence. All three are slimy lifetime political guys, even when they did private sector jobs. Pence's ultimate betrayal -- which proved me right-- came when he certified a rigged vote, came down hard on January 6th protesters, and then became a Never Trumper.
Trump is really bad at picking loyal members of his administration. Why he didn't make Mike Flynn V.P. or something major when Flynn was convicted on a plea deal (overturned on appeal) for Trump is beyond me. Flynn is the type of hard loyalist and stand up guy Trump should be close with, not Swamp Rats like Vivek, Pence, and Vance.
JD Vance has praised the magical, wizard-like Global-Elite Immigrant phenomenon. As corroborating evidence he cites his wife and mixed-race sons. Vance is not anti-White, however. Con-man Vivek and others are anti-White, as now revealed for so many to see. Vance is more like "coopted."
Vance and Vivek are the same: they will say and do anything for the Globalists. Vivek may appear to have more ethnic loyalty than Vance, but both would toss that all aside in a heartbeat if TPTB told them to.
Vance is a bleached Vivek, Vivek is a tanned Vance.