To be pedantic, the FlexJet pilot would have had a commercial certificate, not private. That’s one of the more egregious runway incursions I’ve ever seen. The Southwest guy did a great job.
I’ve seen nothing in the literature or social media that’s anything but a pushback against the idea that DIE is problematic.
I think you’re way too early in declaring victory.
The first thing a student pilot is taught on his first takeoff is to look both ways to see if anyone is on final. Who even crosses the street without looking both ways?
Yowza! Superb instincts by the SW pilot. Laconic in his transmissions with tower, but I'll bet dollars to donuts that off-mike in the cockpit he was likely stating, "what the hell is up with that jackwagon?" to his compadres.
Kind of reminds me of Jim Lovell's comments in the Apollo 13 CM. In the movie he was depicted as being fairly irate with ground control when they were replying with obvious recommendations that the crew had already went through (makes for better Hollywood drama). In reality, If you listen to the actual transmission (they had a open hot microphone), he was much more matter-of-fact, simply stating something along the lines that "I don't think they know what we're dealing with up here; we tried that". Or something along those lines.
It took me back to "An Officer and a Gentleman". Romantic stuff aside... the "working" message of the movie was that temperament mattered as much as skills set for what the officers would need in their upcoming roles... and why they failed people regardless of their high IQ. Continuing to incorporate DEI mandates into aviation is going to keep bringing on possible disasters.
The video shows either (or both) impatience/lack of situational awareness (hard to believe the Flexjet crew/pilot did not see the SW plane bearing down from their right front).
This is why I find Hollywood Blob slop so tedious. Overwrought soldiers, cops, pilots, first responders, doctors, other romanticized trades emoting all over everything. The actual pros are cold as ice. The last thing we need in crisis situations are adult children and their uncontrolled fee-feez.
United 232 in 1989 had a couple of good ones. A check pilot who happened to be riding as a passenger came up to help and said “We’ll have a beer when this is all done. The Captain, Al Haynes, said “Well I don’t drink, but I’ll sure as hell have one.”
Later ATC told the captain, “You’re cleared to land on any runway.” The Captain replied, “Roger. You want to be particular and make it a runway, huh?”
(The crew, despite having almost no control over the airplane aside from differential thrust with the engines, managed to land the plane and save the lives of more than half the passengers.)
1982’s British Airways 009 lost power in all of its engines after flying though a crowd of volcanic ash. Captain Eric Moody said to the passengers, “Ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking. We have a small problem. All four engines have stopped. We are doing our damnedest to get them going. I trust you are not in too much distress.”
The pilots managed to get the engines going again, but landing was difficult as the ash had damaged the windscreen. The Captain described landing as “a bit like negotiating one’s way up a badger’s arse.” The flight engineer kissed the ground after landing and said, “The pope does it.” The Captain replied, “He flies Alitalia.”
Flying into Key West airport on a small plane, I heard the tower ask another (small plane) pilot if he could waggle his wings so they knew they were looking at the right small plane, and the pilot responded "sure, can you waggle the tower so I know I'm at the right airport?".
Whenever something like this (DIE vs Airline Safety) bubbles to the top of the news and becomes political, so many people become instant experts. Just what are the qualifications for being a commercial pilot? Are they all necessary or are some of them habit and tradition? I have seen in my own field an acceptance that interviewing candidates is difficult, and a lot of people (though they would never admit it) perhaps subconsciously hire the person who seems most like them (or rather, most like their image of themselves). There is also a lot of 'do I feel comfortable with this person?"
So I am sympathetic to the basic idea of affirmative action. Yet, I have zero knowledge of what objective criteria would be for judging a pilot. Nor do I know how useful a gut instinct is. Sure it's subjective but that doesn't mean it's wrong.
All that said, there is a point you cross in which it's no longer removing subjective barriers and it becomes about getting the right percentage of whomever and I'm pretty sure that's a terrible idea. All my left wing friends agree; they just don't believe that's where we are with AA/DIE
A company leaving all that untapped talent on the table would be outcompeted, like a pro sports team that refuses to field black athletes. I have a huge problem with the government telling hospitals and airlines they need to give a boost to people based on their racial/ethnic background. And civil engineering firms, fire departments, general contractors.
Actually I don't even want freaking Jiffy-Lube having to worry about DEI/AA.
See that's what I used to think when I was a young libertarian. Then I grew up and worked in corporations and the sea of incompetence was eye-opening. One department I was in wasted a staggering amount of cash completely failing to accomplish its objective over a period of five years. I thought, yeah I could see where some black people might think they could have taken that money and done just as shitty a job.
Perhaps you have heard of the phenomenon of Bullshit Jobs? My hypothesis is that these developed as a subconscious response to the end of welfare and also account s for all the missing productivity that the IT boom should have produced.
I guess. From my point of view I have never had to work with black or hispanic DIE hires. I have however been made to suffer by groups of people who were hired because they were the same race or nationality as the department head ;)
Joy Reid is out of work. Perhaps she’ll learn to fly at those schools In Phoenix Mohammad Atta graduated from. Joy doesn’t like flying unless pilots look like her.
Not clear whether the pilot or the tower initiated the go-around; apparently the cause was a plane that was taking off on runway 19 and pulled onto the runway too early.
We don't actually know that DEI was the problem here. People make mistakes, including White Men. It could have been a simple error by an otherwise-capable pilot. Or it could have been FlexJet going bargain basement on its pilot hiring.
Or it could be DEI or something similar. At this point, we just don't know.
The FlexJet pilot sounds like a white guy to me. But as Steve and many others have pointed out, DEI doesn't just let unqualified *women & minorities* into critical jobs, it lets unqualified *everyone* in - including unqualified straight white males who'd have been filtered out under pre-DEI screening.
Race & sex quotas for jobs are blatantly illegal, and most employers won't even try to discreetly use them in their quest to be diverse. The safer (for the employer, not for the people on the plane) course of action is to just lower standards for everyone until the disparate impact goes away.
“It’s extraordinary that not very long ago, the American Establishment, the foremost beneficiary of this world-historical accomplishment, wanted to blow this remarkable culture up”
Such a poignant statement that it made me stop and think. Is it envy or just pure racism?
I am a retired pilot and former simulator instructor. This is not that big of a deal. Granted, the Flexjet crew should have held short but Midway is a complex airport and the runways are named 31L and 31C and there is no 31R, it's now a taxiway. Pilots are trained to be able to make go-arounds due to various possibilities, including runway excursions. It's just a simple matter of adding power.
Runway incursions are a very big deal indeed. The clowns in the FlexJet weren’t looking out the windows. If they’d been three seconds later to the runway we’d have had another major crash with many more dead.
It’s been quite a month for practical lessons in the value of competence and meritocracy.
Flexjet 560’s first exchange with ground control sounded like he was busy zipping up his fly.
To be pedantic, the FlexJet pilot would have had a commercial certificate, not private. That’s one of the more egregious runway incursions I’ve ever seen. The Southwest guy did a great job.
I’ve seen nothing in the literature or social media that’s anything but a pushback against the idea that DIE is problematic.
I think you’re way too early in declaring victory.
Sort of terrifying that the flex jet pilot not hearing or not understanding “hold short” could’ve caused that disaster.
The first thing a student pilot is taught on his first takeoff is to look both ways to see if anyone is on final. Who even crosses the street without looking both ways?
Yowza! Superb instincts by the SW pilot. Laconic in his transmissions with tower, but I'll bet dollars to donuts that off-mike in the cockpit he was likely stating, "what the hell is up with that jackwagon?" to his compadres.
Kind of reminds me of Jim Lovell's comments in the Apollo 13 CM. In the movie he was depicted as being fairly irate with ground control when they were replying with obvious recommendations that the crew had already went through (makes for better Hollywood drama). In reality, If you listen to the actual transmission (they had a open hot microphone), he was much more matter-of-fact, simply stating something along the lines that "I don't think they know what we're dealing with up here; we tried that". Or something along those lines.
It took me back to "An Officer and a Gentleman". Romantic stuff aside... the "working" message of the movie was that temperament mattered as much as skills set for what the officers would need in their upcoming roles... and why they failed people regardless of their high IQ. Continuing to incorporate DEI mandates into aviation is going to keep bringing on possible disasters.
I can't find anything on the FlexJet pilot :)
I wonder if the Southwest Pilots are the type of guys who never have Road Rage.
any information on the flexjet pilot? even a public apology?
The video shows either (or both) impatience/lack of situational awareness (hard to believe the Flexjet crew/pilot did not see the SW plane bearing down from their right front).
I can’t find anything on them. So of course…..
This is why I find Hollywood Blob slop so tedious. Overwrought soldiers, cops, pilots, first responders, doctors, other romanticized trades emoting all over everything. The actual pros are cold as ice. The last thing we need in crisis situations are adult children and their uncontrolled fee-feez.
My personal favorite pilot quotes:
United 232 in 1989 had a couple of good ones. A check pilot who happened to be riding as a passenger came up to help and said “We’ll have a beer when this is all done. The Captain, Al Haynes, said “Well I don’t drink, but I’ll sure as hell have one.”
Later ATC told the captain, “You’re cleared to land on any runway.” The Captain replied, “Roger. You want to be particular and make it a runway, huh?”
(The crew, despite having almost no control over the airplane aside from differential thrust with the engines, managed to land the plane and save the lives of more than half the passengers.)
1982’s British Airways 009 lost power in all of its engines after flying though a crowd of volcanic ash. Captain Eric Moody said to the passengers, “Ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking. We have a small problem. All four engines have stopped. We are doing our damnedest to get them going. I trust you are not in too much distress.”
The pilots managed to get the engines going again, but landing was difficult as the ash had damaged the windscreen. The Captain described landing as “a bit like negotiating one’s way up a badger’s arse.” The flight engineer kissed the ground after landing and said, “The pope does it.” The Captain replied, “He flies Alitalia.”
Flying into Key West airport on a small plane, I heard the tower ask another (small plane) pilot if he could waggle his wings so they knew they were looking at the right small plane, and the pilot responded "sure, can you waggle the tower so I know I'm at the right airport?".
haha
Whenever something like this (DIE vs Airline Safety) bubbles to the top of the news and becomes political, so many people become instant experts. Just what are the qualifications for being a commercial pilot? Are they all necessary or are some of them habit and tradition? I have seen in my own field an acceptance that interviewing candidates is difficult, and a lot of people (though they would never admit it) perhaps subconsciously hire the person who seems most like them (or rather, most like their image of themselves). There is also a lot of 'do I feel comfortable with this person?"
So I am sympathetic to the basic idea of affirmative action. Yet, I have zero knowledge of what objective criteria would be for judging a pilot. Nor do I know how useful a gut instinct is. Sure it's subjective but that doesn't mean it's wrong.
All that said, there is a point you cross in which it's no longer removing subjective barriers and it becomes about getting the right percentage of whomever and I'm pretty sure that's a terrible idea. All my left wing friends agree; they just don't believe that's where we are with AA/DIE
A company leaving all that untapped talent on the table would be outcompeted, like a pro sports team that refuses to field black athletes. I have a huge problem with the government telling hospitals and airlines they need to give a boost to people based on their racial/ethnic background. And civil engineering firms, fire departments, general contractors.
Actually I don't even want freaking Jiffy-Lube having to worry about DEI/AA.
See that's what I used to think when I was a young libertarian. Then I grew up and worked in corporations and the sea of incompetence was eye-opening. One department I was in wasted a staggering amount of cash completely failing to accomplish its objective over a period of five years. I thought, yeah I could see where some black people might think they could have taken that money and done just as shitty a job.
Perhaps you have heard of the phenomenon of Bullshit Jobs? My hypothesis is that these developed as a subconscious response to the end of welfare and also account s for all the missing productivity that the IT boom should have produced.
AA/DEI just excuses more corporate incompetence and makework jobs. Like Michelle Obama's stand-there-have-tits-and-be-black job.
I guess. From my point of view I have never had to work with black or hispanic DIE hires. I have however been made to suffer by groups of people who were hired because they were the same race or nationality as the department head ;)
Joy Reid is out of work. Perhaps she’ll learn to fly at those schools In Phoenix Mohammad Atta graduated from. Joy doesn’t like flying unless pilots look like her.
If you can believe it, there was also a go-around that took place at Washington Reagan National yesterday morning.
Flight Aware shows it getting down to 500 feet on its first approach (https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL2246/history/20250225/1210Z/KBOS/KDCA).
Not clear whether the pilot or the tower initiated the go-around; apparently the cause was a plane that was taking off on runway 19 and pulled onto the runway too early.
We don't actually know that DEI was the problem here. People make mistakes, including White Men. It could have been a simple error by an otherwise-capable pilot. Or it could have been FlexJet going bargain basement on its pilot hiring.
Or it could be DEI or something similar. At this point, we just don't know.
The FlexJet pilot sounds like a white guy to me. But as Steve and many others have pointed out, DEI doesn't just let unqualified *women & minorities* into critical jobs, it lets unqualified *everyone* in - including unqualified straight white males who'd have been filtered out under pre-DEI screening.
Race & sex quotas for jobs are blatantly illegal, and most employers won't even try to discreetly use them in their quest to be diverse. The safer (for the employer, not for the people on the plane) course of action is to just lower standards for everyone until the disparate impact goes away.
“It’s extraordinary that not very long ago, the American Establishment, the foremost beneficiary of this world-historical accomplishment, wanted to blow this remarkable culture up”
Such a poignant statement that it made me stop and think. Is it envy or just pure racism?
I am a retired pilot and former simulator instructor. This is not that big of a deal. Granted, the Flexjet crew should have held short but Midway is a complex airport and the runways are named 31L and 31C and there is no 31R, it's now a taxiway. Pilots are trained to be able to make go-arounds due to various possibilities, including runway excursions. It's just a simple matter of adding power.
Runway incursions are a very big deal indeed. The clowns in the FlexJet weren’t looking out the windows. If they’d been three seconds later to the runway we’d have had another major crash with many more dead.
Pure luck it didn’t happen.