I'm curious how the Jewish vote was measured. Like was this specifically people who believe in Judaism or all ethnic Jews? For that matter if it was measured based on ethnicity wouldn't that probably only count people who were fully Jewish since mixed people would probably put their race as White or mixed? If you use a broader definition of Jewish then the vote might very well have been less skewed in favor of Harris.
A critical thing is there is such a thing as pseudo-affiliation. For example, it isn't uncommon for people with just a Jewish paternal grandfather to declare themselves "Jewish" for the purpose of joining J-Street or even more a propos, "Jewish Voice for Peace". Or even inventing such a person for PR reasons. In other words - while exit polls are tending towards usual rubbish, exit polls where people declare themselves "Jewish" maybe so toxic as below fertilizer grade.
So I would throw out data from neighborhoods of 4% or below, because of pseudo-affiliation. On the other hand, neighborhoods with 33% or above are much less at risk of pseudo-affiliation.
So yes - there is a simple criterion - if one were male and above 13, would one count towards a minyan in an orthodox shul?
"...it isn't uncommon for people with just a Jewish paternal grandfather to declare themselves "Jewish" for the purpose of joining J-Street or even more a propos, "Jewish Voice for Peace"."
I don't know anyone who's done that [declared himself Jewish with that justification] other than Konstantin Kisin, and as far as I know he hasn't done either [joined J St. or joined JVP].
Just yesterday I was reading a big editorial from apparently a Jewish guy from Netherlands (he claimed he was Jewish, but made no substantive claim like “my mom is Jewish, and her mom was Jewish too”). Anyway, he acknowledged he liked black ladies from Latin America (Brazil, Surinam) and that he had 2 kids with them. And now he’s afraid if his kids were to wear Star of David necklaces and being on Dutch school grounds. OK, I kind of understand - but wtf, according to what he describes, his kids are not Jewish…
Depends on the definition. Mother being Jewish is the classic test, but I had a girlfriend once who didn't meet that test but was going through a process to become Jewish. Maybe she had to conjure up some hint of Jewish ancestry, but I'm pretty sure it was pro-forma. And a lot of folks here insist that {{{Jusse Smollet}}} (same situation as the Dutch guy's sons) should have his name written thusly. I think it was Hannah Arendt who said (back before Commentary fell into the hands of the lesser Podhoritz) that Jewishness had shifted from being defined by Exodus to be defined by the Holocaust.
Konstantin Kisin had a grand-grandfather by Y-chromosomal line. That would explain the surname but at the same time, he wouldn’t even be a Mischling 2nd Grades.
Wikipedia: "Both of his parents were semi-practicing Christians, while his grandfather on his father's side was Jewish.[5] Kisin has previously identified as Jewish.[6][7]"
You're begging the question of who is a Jew. The only Jew I know well never attends religious services, since he's an atheist. But the Nuremberg Laws and the wanna-be Nazis who have followed Sailer here from Unz would undoubtedly put squiggly parentheses around his name.
I operated a business in a Jewish owned building for over twenty years. Great family. But the only time they attend a synagogue was Bar-Mitsvahs and Bat-Mitsvahs. I don't even think they went to synagogue on Holy Days.
Seems like you struggle with the basics. Jews are an ethnic group who regardless of their religiosity stick up for their own race while generally advocating for egalitarian race blindness among gentile Whites.
Sounds like you have no idea what you're talking about and are a typical specimen of Jews-on-the-Brain.
Every Jew, as determined by the Nuremberg Laws, knows that you and your ilk (Nazis, not Gentiles) are mortal enemies and therefor cannot avoid being somewhat a "Jew", but the degree to which they care about other's Jewishness is highly variable. And Jewishness is not a "race".
There is some clash between Nürnberg and Halacha. Nürnberg defined Jewish as majority Jewish, ie MORE than 50%. So someone like Wittgenstein (75%) was Jewish according to Nürnberg, but he wouldn't have counted in an orthodox shul because his maternal grandma wasn't.
People with 50% status (Mischling 1st grade) had trouble joining Wehrmacht, but there were lots of 25% status people (Mischling 2nd grade) who were officers in the Wehrmacht. For example Helmut Schmidt, who later became the Federal Chancellor in the 1970s. Of course no-one would say Oberleutenant (sen Lieutenant) Helmut Schmidt were Jewish. He was a model Wehrmacht-officer.
Looking into it I will modify my comment as follows: The Jews-on-the-Brain types are even stricter in defining non-Jewishness than the Nuremberg Laws (3 Jewish grandparents?), and far stricter than Halacha as well. So Jewishness as defined by awareness of the threat of wanna-be Nazis is a far larger group than that defined by either of those rule sets.
Btw, I'd bet a LOT of the usual subjects declared Schmidt a Jew. Paranoia was rampant and some of them even even finger-pointed at Heydrich, right? .
You've got a data point of one. I've had the opposite exposure: most Jewish friends and acquaintances had membership in a temple and went at least several times a year. Even if agnostic or indifferent to the theology, they regard Jewish religious praxis as an important cultural expression, like the mercenary Jewish New Yorkers in Uncut Gems. The Anglo-American equivalent would be old stock Episcopalians.
Your sampling choice seems likely to be circular. As to my data point, nothing about his appearance or anything else I can see marks him out as having Semitic DNA. I just happen to know that his mother was an Ashkenazi Jew. So he could belong in your sample without you knowing it.
Your sampling choice is literally one person. Jews, over my lifetime and numerous relations, seem to relish their ethnic experience including temple membership and high holy days,like blacks enjoy very much being black. Given the persistence of distinctive Jewish phenotypes and Jewish culture, it's a pretty easy thesis that more Jews are like my Jewish friends and acquaintances (or, if you want public examples, Adam Sandler and Bob Dylan) and less like your one Jewish friend.
Self-identification is the usual method for all demographic data. So, people are asked to check yes or no in response to "Are you Jewish?" or "Are you a Jew?" or "Do you consider yourself Jewish?"
I suspect the results might come out slightly different these days depending on the exact wording of the question and its placement. If the Jewish question is placed in with other religions like Christian and Buddhist, then it might lose some Yeses from non-religious Jews. A free-standing question: do you consider yourself Jewish might get the highest number of Yeses.
Tablet: "In the GBAO-conducted polls, Haredim and people with no religious conception of their Judaism are assumed to share the politically meaningful demographic category of “Jewish voter.” In the Teach Coalition poll, Jewish voters are defined as people who reach a belief-based threshold of self-identity."
Tabletmag did quite a good precint by precint description for NY, LA in CA, FL, NJ - even Michigan. They are not behind paywall - so anyone interested can read.
Yes. The classification in the US can be already pretty confusing. The question who is a jew anyway only adds to this. Many jews would deny that they are white, while those who would think themselves as white would probably more inclined for the republicans.
And also as many jews found after the Hamas attack, outwardly they are mostly white, so if that switch was flipped inside them, that might have made them more likely to vote right. And we know that the switch was indeed flipped in at least some people.
Sailer's Substack thread acquired a slew of Jews-on-the-Brain types from Sailer's stay on Unz with some insalubrious colleagues (Andrew Anglin comes to mind) and they often have a tic signaling what they are by not capitalizing "jew". But nothing else in your post smelled like that so I thought I'd ask.
Ah...it's alright. Actually it's not the first time I get something like this but it's really just that in my mother language we rarely use capitalisation and that's my default mode. (And the app also won't let me edit it.)
Breitbart writers, Jews or with Jewish colleagues, were drooling all over this, and the WSJ declared that Trump "won the first post-racial election."
Reality: The majority of Blacks, Latinos and Jews voted socialist, as they do all over the West. The only non-White groups that voted majority GOP were Amerindians. In every election in every state, the majority of non-Whites vote socialist.
Cuckservatives: "But look at these few percent! Post-racial!"
Imagine if they could just once state the obvious, that the White majority is what maintains the Republican party, just like Whites all over the West are the ones who vote right-wing.
As someone said, the Democrats today are centered on Blacks. Which reminds me of: Looking at some Hallmark movies now that Christmas is approaching, it's funny how they carefully insert Blacks in every story, making sure there can be no image of Whites without Blacks added (gotta have Black guests at every wedding!), but they don't include Latinos other than very rarely. Despite Latinos now outnumbering Blacks. And they only have the occasional Asian. It mirrors Hollywood overall. Even when they place a story in a fictional "Central European" kingdom, the royal guards are Whites and Blacks. Not Whites and some other race. (Or, Gaia forbid, only White guards!)
The Wall Street Journal's writers go about the world with blinkers over their eyes. They think the whole world is ready to be post-racial like Jason Riley and Naomi Schaefer Riley. Their naivete is stupefying.
Hollywood goes to great extremes to get blacks into any film scenario. In modern Hollywood, Ivanhoe and Richard the Lion-Hearted would be gallant black men fighting off the sneaky white man, Prince John. Bridge on the River Kwai would feature a black commando team blowing up the bridge. A re-make of "Pride of the Yankees" would have a rap star like Lil Wayne play Lou Gehrig. A film about Ernest Shackleton would feature a black Shackleton.
LOL What a ridiculous comment. I wrote that Breitbart writers are either Jews or have Jewish colleagues. The little jewtroll tries to find something it can kvetch about as usual, how funny. "Someone wrote something about us, I must attack! What can I find? Let me see!" Dude, at least the Jews at Breitbart are better writers than you. That's why they have jobs and you don't.
No, I think he got you there. That's an awkward construction. Once you write that many Brietbart writers are Jewish, it follows that the rest of them must have Jewish colleagues...I mean unless you can work for the same company and not be considered colleagues.
Pro-Israel Jews break more for Trump, anti-Zionist Jews don't. Trump is very strongly aligned with Israel's right wingers. The Israel-Palestinian conflict heating up pushed more pro-Israel American Jews to Trump; if tensions were low they'd go back to their usual pro-communist voting.
Pro-Israel American Jews tend to be the ones who subtly understand that Israel will be the place to flee if the West goes down or is lost by the Jews, and so they get patriotic about Israel. Call them Prepper Jews. Of course, Jews always traditionally had an "escape plan" when the pograms and inquisitions hit, but that usually meant fleeing to another Jewish community in another country, e.g. Iberian Jews fled to Amsterdam and Turkish Jewish communities when the Inquisition and Edict of Expulsion hit. But these days with the world being smaller and Israel having nukes and military, Israel will be the place Western Jews run if it all turns sideways here.
In contrast, anti-Israel Jews are usually very secular, believe in the diversity stuff, and usually have mated and moved into non-Jewish blood. The idea of fleeing to a "Jewish community" is alien to them, they will flee if it goes pear-shaped, of course, but not to specifically Jewish lands.
Reminds me of former Israeli prime minister Naftali Bennett; his parents were from California, where they were leftist and in leftist protests, but when they came to Israel they were nationalists.
Israeli prime ministers are a horror show. Ehud Barak was a frequent guest at Epstein's house, as the neighbors confirmed. He could be seen entering at the same time as young women, hiding his face. Ehud Olmert supports the Gaza holocaust and only criticizes Netanyahu for not having finished it quicker.
Getting to look up a new word from Steve sailer is an extra special treat👍
In Yiddish the bordered/defined neighborhood is called an eruv. A neighborhood in Hebrew is called a schuna and until this article had not been aware of that, surprising it's used in the context of nyc/crown heights specifically because they are yiddish-oriented.
The bubble of Jews I still speak with voted for Trump those I don't talk to are seething.
Back in 2016 I counted the Jews in the media who were for or against Trump. The against list was enormous. The for list was ... let me see, Drudge and maybe a few more.
Alas, I used to check Drudge's website frequently. He turned against Trump when Trump wouldn't bomb Iran. Which would have sunk his prospects of re-election as Iran would have mined the Strait of Hormuz shut. Instead Trump fired Sheldon Adelson's boy John Bolton. Drudge was real, real angry, and now he isn't just a critic, he outright promoted Democrats before the election. The only Jewish media guy I check now is Glenn Greenwald, who often has a lot of good information. So naturally they don't invite him to any studio.
In Washington DC, the top Jewish neighborhoods are in Silver Spring and Bethesda, both in Montgomery County. I doubt if there was any movement in the Jewish vote to the Republicans in 2024. Jews in Montgomery County are invested in the national government in one way or the other so the events since October 7, 2023 have little bearing on their votes.
None of the Jews-on-the-brain types who infest these threads think that Jews getting government money don't take their walking orders from the Elders of Zion. And I'm not seeing the conflict with being pro-Israel either.
Trying to find a neighborhood here and there where Trump did a little better and claiming that Jews "only" voted 66% for Trump is normiecon cope. Jews as a whole voted overwhelmingly for Cumala, around 80%, and there is no indication that the endless pandering to Our Greatest Ally moved that needle much if at all. That is the weird thing about pandering to Israel by the GOP, it isn't intended to get Jewish votes so much as it is to get White evangelical votes and Zionist Jewish billionaire contributions.
But keep in mind that it's not necessarily "pandering to Israel." Many American Evangelicals truly love Jews and Israel for religious reasons, rather than as some kind of hope to bring them onboard the white train. They highly respect the fact that Jesus was Jewish and they believe in the biblical prophecy of the Second Coming of Jesus when all Jews return to Israel. That's also what's behind the GOP's pro-Israel agenda.
Australian & UK politicians are all pro-Israel and there are no evangelicals in UK or Australia. This is just a way for Jews to blame anybody but themselves for US Israel policy. It would be transparently false in the case of, say, US Cuba policy.
I am sure many Evangelicals sincerely do believe in erroneous dispensationalist hermeneutic, I have run into countless people that do in the past. It is the GOP that is pandering to them by supporting Israel no matter how awful Israeli actions are or how much Jews hate those very evangelicals that purport to love them.
The Orthodox are voting overwhelmingly for Trump. And they're the only group that is not intermarried. Their TFR is off the charts, And they also voted overwhelmingly for Trump in the past two elections. I wonder if the swing to Trump in places like New York reflects more the increasingly greater makeup of the Orthodox rather than the intermarried reform changing their vote
No, that's not correct. Non-Orthodox Jews are not necessarily "intermarried." If that were true, there would be no Mark Zuckerberg, or Sam Bankman-Fried in the young generation in the US (or, in Europe, Vladimir Zelensky -- a full Ukrainian Jew). There continues to be a fully Jewish ethnic group, and it can also be secular as in the 20th century.
Ask yourself this question: If Jews are intermarrying with white gentiles on a wide scale, then why is there continuing virulent anti-Semitism (like the (((..))) notation used by young people) on the white right, including among younger people, like Nick Fuentes, Andre Anglin, and many others? They're not targeting Orthodox Jews; the Orthodox crowd is insular and harmless. They're targeting the usual secular Jews. If those Jews were assimilating like Italians and Irish, that wouldn't be the case. They would gradually blend into white America and its interests. But the fact that white-gentile anti-Semitism persists, and is in fact growing, disproves that notion.
Would it surprise you that Alt Right Anti Semites are wrong? Some of the Alt Right that are somewhat Anti Israeli and anti-semitic coded are partially Jewish themselves.
1) Much of that intermarriage is to non-whites, like Mark Zuckerberg
2) If it's to white-gentiles, it may be a later post-divorce relationship like Bernie Sanders. Bernie Sanders is married to a white-gentile woman, but his first wife with whom he had children is Jewish, thus his children are all-Jewish.
> Ask yourself this question: If Jews are intermarrying with white gentiles on a wide scale, then why is there continuing virulent anti-Semitism (like the (((..))) notation used by young people) on the white right, including among younger people, like Nick Fuentes, Andre Anglin, and many others?
Basically, they're using Jews as a symbol/scapegoat for the parts of Western Civilization they don't like.
Currently the US is largely philosemitic, unless that changes-this is probably going to happen faster and wider than in Spain, and likely more with the white population then the less successful minority populations.
What percentage of college educate whites voted for Trump?
Around 45% for undergradudates only, around 40% for those with graduate/professional degrees according to exit polls.
What percentage of Jews (non ultra-Orthodox) have college degrees.
Education. U.S. Jewish adults are, on the whole, a comparatively well-educated group. Nearly six-in-ten are college graduates, including 28% who have obtained a postgraduate degree. By comparison, among U.S. adults overall, about three-in-ten are college graduates, including 11% who have a postgraduate degree. According to Pew Research.
And then one can add in that Most educated jews live in blue places such as California, New York, New Jersey, or Conn than the rest of the U.S.
"79% of US Jews voted for Harris, according to largest preliminary exit poll"
So I don't know how to square that word "largest" with the fact that it may have significant omissions. Was it a lie by the Times of Israel?
In any event, I take this poll at face value. It tells me that unfortunately Jews are an unassimilated minority that will never align with white-gentile interests in the US, and will always have a minority identity and outlook. The gap with white Christians (gentiles) remains far greater for American Jews than with any non-white minority. The Israel-Hamas stuff going on right now is kind of a red herring that obscures this -- hard to believe, I know, but that's what this poll result suggests. Jews in the US (with the exception of Soviet/Russian Jews, a notable subgroup that votes Republican) feel more comfortable around non-whites and are united with them against the core white majority. That's the general picture which remains unchanged even with the new Israel-Hamas war.
And this poll also disproves some other common myths. It's often been said that Orthodox Jews, in contrast to secular Jews, vote Republican. But Orthodox Jews with their large families are a sizable demographic which would be at odds with the overwhelming 79% figure, so many of them are probably also Democrats. I've also heard that Jews are intermarrying with Gentiles in large numbers. If that were true, their minority voting patterns would probably be less than they are in this poll.
In sum, rumors of Jews flocking to the right in the face of our new race-based/DEI era have been greatly exaggerated.
Yes, but by their interpretation of history, the persecution of Jews is dominated by the Europeans (Romans to Nazis). So the fear of a white majority is not illogical.
If that interpretation of history were all they had.
But Black anti-Semitism is quite strong. That's the "lived experience ", and not just recently. Norman Podhoritz fairly famously wrote about this being what happened to him in his youth, which was a long time ago.
Liberal Jews are still much more upset about their proverbial grandparent who was denied country club membership back in the '50s than they are about 10/7, which they'd prefer not to discuss, except for ritual denunciations of Netanyahu.
American Ashkenazim, unless they have some connection to Israel, still define themselves as in opposition to Christians and still expect a Cossack pogrom to break out at any moment. They can't help it, 500 years or so of having to sleep w one eye open will make you paranoid.
The Tablet article gives STRONG reasons to believe (at a precinct level, in New York) that what you call a "common myth" about Orthodox Jews is not a myth. So if, as you say, "Orthodox Jews with their large families are a sizable demographic which would be at odds with the overwhelming 79% figure" that points to the 79% exit poll being wrong.
" The Israel-Hamas stuff going on right now is kind of a red herring that obscures this -- hard to believe, I know, but that's what this poll result suggests."
The 79% number says the "Israel-Hamas stuff" obscured nothing since it affected nothing.
If that's hard to believe maybe what you shouldn't believe is the 79% number,
Jews have turned right, or rather, the political spectrum migrated over the past ten years to place more Jews on the Trumpian right. That doesn't mean they will abandon their lifelong political identity and vote republican.
Given the (still) intense focus on identity in western countries, what effect will the USA's new MENA (Middle Easterner-North African) jelly bean counting category have on American Jews? Are they (or at least the younger generations among them) more or less likely to decouple from "Whites" and flock to the new identity, claiming it for those of Jewish descent? Surely they have, at least for a time, Arabs and other MENAs outnumbered. Gonna get interesting...
I've been been asking about that for a decade, but I've never seen any research on it.
Israelis are explicitly included in MENA. There is some talk that Armenians are excluded from MENA because polling showed they didn't want to be in it. There doesn't seem to have been any public statements from Administration officials about non-Israeli Jews. The topic doesn't seem to have come up, at least not in public. My view is that anything that could influence the self-identification of the Ashkenazim is potentially a big deal, but the Biden Administration seems to have figured, "What, me worry?"
Makes sense for Mizrahi. For Sephardi and, particularly, Ashkenazi, not so much,
As to "decoupl[ing] from "Whites" and flock[ing] to the new identity" (Bicker), until it comes with "Affirmative Action" benefits I'd expect it to be ignored.
I'm curious how the Jewish vote was measured. Like was this specifically people who believe in Judaism or all ethnic Jews? For that matter if it was measured based on ethnicity wouldn't that probably only count people who were fully Jewish since mixed people would probably put their race as White or mixed? If you use a broader definition of Jewish then the vote might very well have been less skewed in favor of Harris.
A critical thing is there is such a thing as pseudo-affiliation. For example, it isn't uncommon for people with just a Jewish paternal grandfather to declare themselves "Jewish" for the purpose of joining J-Street or even more a propos, "Jewish Voice for Peace". Or even inventing such a person for PR reasons. In other words - while exit polls are tending towards usual rubbish, exit polls where people declare themselves "Jewish" maybe so toxic as below fertilizer grade.
So I would throw out data from neighborhoods of 4% or below, because of pseudo-affiliation. On the other hand, neighborhoods with 33% or above are much less at risk of pseudo-affiliation.
So yes - there is a simple criterion - if one were male and above 13, would one count towards a minyan in an orthodox shul?
"...it isn't uncommon for people with just a Jewish paternal grandfather to declare themselves "Jewish" for the purpose of joining J-Street or even more a propos, "Jewish Voice for Peace"."
I don't know anyone who's done that [declared himself Jewish with that justification] other than Konstantin Kisin, and as far as I know he hasn't done either [joined J St. or joined JVP].
Just yesterday I was reading a big editorial from apparently a Jewish guy from Netherlands (he claimed he was Jewish, but made no substantive claim like “my mom is Jewish, and her mom was Jewish too”). Anyway, he acknowledged he liked black ladies from Latin America (Brazil, Surinam) and that he had 2 kids with them. And now he’s afraid if his kids were to wear Star of David necklaces and being on Dutch school grounds. OK, I kind of understand - but wtf, according to what he describes, his kids are not Jewish…
Depends on the definition. Mother being Jewish is the classic test, but I had a girlfriend once who didn't meet that test but was going through a process to become Jewish. Maybe she had to conjure up some hint of Jewish ancestry, but I'm pretty sure it was pro-forma. And a lot of folks here insist that {{{Jusse Smollet}}} (same situation as the Dutch guy's sons) should have his name written thusly. I think it was Hannah Arendt who said (back before Commentary fell into the hands of the lesser Podhoritz) that Jewishness had shifted from being defined by Exodus to be defined by the Holocaust.
Konstantin Kisin had a grand-grandfather by Y-chromosomal line. That would explain the surname but at the same time, he wouldn’t even be a Mischling 2nd Grades.
More than " grand-grandfather".
Wikipedia: "Both of his parents were semi-practicing Christians, while his grandfather on his father's side was Jewish.[5] Kisin has previously identified as Jewish.[6][7]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konstantin_Kisin
I would guess that most Jews, like most Catholics, rarely attend religious services.
You're begging the question of who is a Jew. The only Jew I know well never attends religious services, since he's an atheist. But the Nuremberg Laws and the wanna-be Nazis who have followed Sailer here from Unz would undoubtedly put squiggly parentheses around his name.
I operated a business in a Jewish owned building for over twenty years. Great family. But the only time they attend a synagogue was Bar-Mitsvahs and Bat-Mitsvahs. I don't even think they went to synagogue on Holy Days.
Seems like you struggle with the basics. Jews are an ethnic group who regardless of their religiosity stick up for their own race while generally advocating for egalitarian race blindness among gentile Whites.
Sounds like you have no idea what you're talking about and are a typical specimen of Jews-on-the-Brain.
Every Jew, as determined by the Nuremberg Laws, knows that you and your ilk (Nazis, not Gentiles) are mortal enemies and therefor cannot avoid being somewhat a "Jew", but the degree to which they care about other's Jewishness is highly variable. And Jewishness is not a "race".
There is some clash between Nürnberg and Halacha. Nürnberg defined Jewish as majority Jewish, ie MORE than 50%. So someone like Wittgenstein (75%) was Jewish according to Nürnberg, but he wouldn't have counted in an orthodox shul because his maternal grandma wasn't.
People with 50% status (Mischling 1st grade) had trouble joining Wehrmacht, but there were lots of 25% status people (Mischling 2nd grade) who were officers in the Wehrmacht. For example Helmut Schmidt, who later became the Federal Chancellor in the 1970s. Of course no-one would say Oberleutenant (sen Lieutenant) Helmut Schmidt were Jewish. He was a model Wehrmacht-officer.
Looking into it I will modify my comment as follows: The Jews-on-the-Brain types are even stricter in defining non-Jewishness than the Nuremberg Laws (3 Jewish grandparents?), and far stricter than Halacha as well. So Jewishness as defined by awareness of the threat of wanna-be Nazis is a far larger group than that defined by either of those rule sets.
Btw, I'd bet a LOT of the usual subjects declared Schmidt a Jew. Paranoia was rampant and some of them even even finger-pointed at Heydrich, right? .
Btw, what does "sen" mean?
You've got a data point of one. I've had the opposite exposure: most Jewish friends and acquaintances had membership in a temple and went at least several times a year. Even if agnostic or indifferent to the theology, they regard Jewish religious praxis as an important cultural expression, like the mercenary Jewish New Yorkers in Uncut Gems. The Anglo-American equivalent would be old stock Episcopalians.
"...most Jewish friends and acquaintances..."
Your sampling choice seems likely to be circular. As to my data point, nothing about his appearance or anything else I can see marks him out as having Semitic DNA. I just happen to know that his mother was an Ashkenazi Jew. So he could belong in your sample without you knowing it.
Your sampling choice is literally one person. Jews, over my lifetime and numerous relations, seem to relish their ethnic experience including temple membership and high holy days,like blacks enjoy very much being black. Given the persistence of distinctive Jewish phenotypes and Jewish culture, it's a pretty easy thesis that more Jews are like my Jewish friends and acquaintances (or, if you want public examples, Adam Sandler and Bob Dylan) and less like your one Jewish friend.
I just googled Sandler apparently his non Jewish (Second)supposedly converted. Nobody Orthodox would consider that conversion valid.
From an " I identify as a Jew test"maybe his children still fit the criteria but will the next generation? I doubt it.
Dylan on the other end has Orthodox children (At least one)
The steadily increasing number of ultra-Orthodox attend services.
"I'm curious how the Jewish vote was measured. Like was this specifically people who believe in Judaism or all ethnic Jews?"
Sailer: "It’s unclear from the small sample of SELF-IDENTIFYING Jews in the exit polls whether or not Jews moved right or left in 2024."
edit: See more on this in the Tablet article.
Self-identification is the usual method for all demographic data. So, people are asked to check yes or no in response to "Are you Jewish?" or "Are you a Jew?" or "Do you consider yourself Jewish?"
I suspect the results might come out slightly different these days depending on the exact wording of the question and its placement. If the Jewish question is placed in with other religions like Christian and Buddhist, then it might lose some Yeses from non-religious Jews. A free-standing question: do you consider yourself Jewish might get the highest number of Yeses.
Tablet: "In the GBAO-conducted polls, Haredim and people with no religious conception of their Judaism are assumed to share the politically meaningful demographic category of “Jewish voter.” In the Teach Coalition poll, Jewish voters are defined as people who reach a belief-based threshold of self-identity."
The linked article (free to read) has more details.
Data from Chicago suburbs would be nice. Did Glencoe and Highland Park redshift more than Lake Forest?
NY suburbs, perhaps compare Scarsdale (more Jew-y) and Bronxville (more WASP-y).
Tabletmag did quite a good precint by precint description for NY, LA in CA, FL, NJ - even Michigan. They are not behind paywall - so anyone interested can read.
I read it, it didn't cover the parts of NY and IL I asked about.
Yes. The classification in the US can be already pretty confusing. The question who is a jew anyway only adds to this. Many jews would deny that they are white, while those who would think themselves as white would probably more inclined for the republicans.
And also as many jews found after the Hamas attack, outwardly they are mostly white, so if that switch was flipped inside them, that might have made them more likely to vote right. And we know that the switch was indeed flipped in at least some people.
So, why do you prefer to spell Jew "jew"?
No meaning behind it. Sometimes I forget that the names of ethnicities must be capitalised in english. My bad.
Sailer's Substack thread acquired a slew of Jews-on-the-Brain types from Sailer's stay on Unz with some insalubrious colleagues (Andrew Anglin comes to mind) and they often have a tic signaling what they are by not capitalizing "jew". But nothing else in your post smelled like that so I thought I'd ask.
Ah...it's alright. Actually it's not the first time I get something like this but it's really just that in my mother language we rarely use capitalisation and that's my default mode. (And the app also won't let me edit it.)
If by "the app" you mean the software here the three dots at the lower right corner of your post lead to an edit option.
Steve, unfinished sentence?
"Even more important than how they vote is how Jewish donors are trending politically because they comprise"
many of the biggest political donors.
Later on this week, I will follow up with detailed counts of the ethnic backgrounds of the 50 biggest donors in 2020 vs. 2024.
Breitbart writers, Jews or with Jewish colleagues, were drooling all over this, and the WSJ declared that Trump "won the first post-racial election."
Reality: The majority of Blacks, Latinos and Jews voted socialist, as they do all over the West. The only non-White groups that voted majority GOP were Amerindians. In every election in every state, the majority of non-Whites vote socialist.
Cuckservatives: "But look at these few percent! Post-racial!"
Imagine if they could just once state the obvious, that the White majority is what maintains the Republican party, just like Whites all over the West are the ones who vote right-wing.
As someone said, the Democrats today are centered on Blacks. Which reminds me of: Looking at some Hallmark movies now that Christmas is approaching, it's funny how they carefully insert Blacks in every story, making sure there can be no image of Whites without Blacks added (gotta have Black guests at every wedding!), but they don't include Latinos other than very rarely. Despite Latinos now outnumbering Blacks. And they only have the occasional Asian. It mirrors Hollywood overall. Even when they place a story in a fictional "Central European" kingdom, the royal guards are Whites and Blacks. Not Whites and some other race. (Or, Gaia forbid, only White guards!)
The Wall Street Journal's writers go about the world with blinkers over their eyes. They think the whole world is ready to be post-racial like Jason Riley and Naomi Schaefer Riley. Their naivete is stupefying.
Hollywood goes to great extremes to get blacks into any film scenario. In modern Hollywood, Ivanhoe and Richard the Lion-Hearted would be gallant black men fighting off the sneaky white man, Prince John. Bridge on the River Kwai would feature a black commando team blowing up the bridge. A re-make of "Pride of the Yankees" would have a rap star like Lil Wayne play Lou Gehrig. A film about Ernest Shackleton would feature a black Shackleton.
Lil Wayne as Lou Gehrig! I would pay to see that!
"Today I consider myself the luckiest NI$$A on the face of this earth...beeeeootch!"
CP, you should write comedy.
lol thanks!
"Breitbart writers, Jews or with Jewish colleagues, were drooling all over this..."
Who are the Breitbart writers who don't have Jewish colleagues?
LOL What a ridiculous comment. I wrote that Breitbart writers are either Jews or have Jewish colleagues. The little jewtroll tries to find something it can kvetch about as usual, how funny. "Someone wrote something about us, I must attack! What can I find? Let me see!" Dude, at least the Jews at Breitbart are better writers than you. That's why they have jobs and you don't.
No, I think he got you there. That's an awkward construction. Once you write that many Brietbart writers are Jewish, it follows that the rest of them must have Jewish colleagues...I mean unless you can work for the same company and not be considered colleagues.
Pro-Israel Jews break more for Trump, anti-Zionist Jews don't. Trump is very strongly aligned with Israel's right wingers. The Israel-Palestinian conflict heating up pushed more pro-Israel American Jews to Trump; if tensions were low they'd go back to their usual pro-communist voting.
Pro-Israel American Jews tend to be the ones who subtly understand that Israel will be the place to flee if the West goes down or is lost by the Jews, and so they get patriotic about Israel. Call them Prepper Jews. Of course, Jews always traditionally had an "escape plan" when the pograms and inquisitions hit, but that usually meant fleeing to another Jewish community in another country, e.g. Iberian Jews fled to Amsterdam and Turkish Jewish communities when the Inquisition and Edict of Expulsion hit. But these days with the world being smaller and Israel having nukes and military, Israel will be the place Western Jews run if it all turns sideways here.
In contrast, anti-Israel Jews are usually very secular, believe in the diversity stuff, and usually have mated and moved into non-Jewish blood. The idea of fleeing to a "Jewish community" is alien to them, they will flee if it goes pear-shaped, of course, but not to specifically Jewish lands.
Reminds me of former Israeli prime minister Naftali Bennett; his parents were from California, where they were leftist and in leftist protests, but when they came to Israel they were nationalists.
Israeli prime ministers are a horror show. Ehud Barak was a frequent guest at Epstein's house, as the neighbors confirmed. He could be seen entering at the same time as young women, hiding his face. Ehud Olmert supports the Gaza holocaust and only criticizes Netanyahu for not having finished it quicker.
Schuna 👀
Getting to look up a new word from Steve sailer is an extra special treat👍
In Yiddish the bordered/defined neighborhood is called an eruv. A neighborhood in Hebrew is called a schuna and until this article had not been aware of that, surprising it's used in the context of nyc/crown heights specifically because they are yiddish-oriented.
The bubble of Jews I still speak with voted for Trump those I don't talk to are seething.
Back in 2016 I counted the Jews in the media who were for or against Trump. The against list was enormous. The for list was ... let me see, Drudge and maybe a few more.
Alas, I used to check Drudge's website frequently. He turned against Trump when Trump wouldn't bomb Iran. Which would have sunk his prospects of re-election as Iran would have mined the Strait of Hormuz shut. Instead Trump fired Sheldon Adelson's boy John Bolton. Drudge was real, real angry, and now he isn't just a critic, he outright promoted Democrats before the election. The only Jewish media guy I check now is Glenn Greenwald, who often has a lot of good information. So naturally they don't invite him to any studio.
In Washington DC, the top Jewish neighborhoods are in Silver Spring and Bethesda, both in Montgomery County. I doubt if there was any movement in the Jewish vote to the Republicans in 2024. Jews in Montgomery County are invested in the national government in one way or the other so the events since October 7, 2023 have little bearing on their votes.
None of the Jews-on-the-brain types who infest these threads think that Jews getting government money don't take their walking orders from the Elders of Zion. And I'm not seeing the conflict with being pro-Israel either.
The 'jewish vote' is money.
The ultra-Orthodox aren’t particularly well off.
So. The jewish 'vote' is money.
Trying to find a neighborhood here and there where Trump did a little better and claiming that Jews "only" voted 66% for Trump is normiecon cope. Jews as a whole voted overwhelmingly for Cumala, around 80%, and there is no indication that the endless pandering to Our Greatest Ally moved that needle much if at all. That is the weird thing about pandering to Israel by the GOP, it isn't intended to get Jewish votes so much as it is to get White evangelical votes and Zionist Jewish billionaire contributions.
But keep in mind that it's not necessarily "pandering to Israel." Many American Evangelicals truly love Jews and Israel for religious reasons, rather than as some kind of hope to bring them onboard the white train. They highly respect the fact that Jesus was Jewish and they believe in the biblical prophecy of the Second Coming of Jesus when all Jews return to Israel. That's also what's behind the GOP's pro-Israel agenda.
Australian & UK politicians are all pro-Israel and there are no evangelicals in UK or Australia. This is just a way for Jews to blame anybody but themselves for US Israel policy. It would be transparently false in the case of, say, US Cuba policy.
Plenty of non-Jews are sympathetic to Israel. They are more appealing than Muslims to many. Muslims make up most of the Middle East.
I am sure many Evangelicals sincerely do believe in erroneous dispensationalist hermeneutic, I have run into countless people that do in the past. It is the GOP that is pandering to them by supporting Israel no matter how awful Israeli actions are or how much Jews hate those very evangelicals that purport to love them.
The Orthodox are voting overwhelmingly for Trump. And they're the only group that is not intermarried. Their TFR is off the charts, And they also voted overwhelmingly for Trump in the past two elections. I wonder if the swing to Trump in places like New York reflects more the increasingly greater makeup of the Orthodox rather than the intermarried reform changing their vote
No, that's not correct. Non-Orthodox Jews are not necessarily "intermarried." If that were true, there would be no Mark Zuckerberg, or Sam Bankman-Fried in the young generation in the US (or, in Europe, Vladimir Zelensky -- a full Ukrainian Jew). There continues to be a fully Jewish ethnic group, and it can also be secular as in the 20th century.
The intermarriage rate is increasing among non-religious Jews. Consider the age of the parents of the people you mentioned.
Mark Zuckerberg’s parents were Jewish but he’s married to a Chinese woman.
Ask yourself this question: If Jews are intermarrying with white gentiles on a wide scale, then why is there continuing virulent anti-Semitism (like the (((..))) notation used by young people) on the white right, including among younger people, like Nick Fuentes, Andre Anglin, and many others? They're not targeting Orthodox Jews; the Orthodox crowd is insular and harmless. They're targeting the usual secular Jews. If those Jews were assimilating like Italians and Irish, that wouldn't be the case. They would gradually blend into white America and its interests. But the fact that white-gentile anti-Semitism persists, and is in fact growing, disproves that notion.
Would it surprise you that Alt Right Anti Semites are wrong? Some of the Alt Right that are somewhat Anti Israeli and anti-semitic coded are partially Jewish themselves.
Just google it: Majority of Non orthodox marry non Jewish people and its been going on for a while.
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2013/10/01/chapter-2-intermarriage-and-other-demographics/
Nope, not so fast:
1) Much of that intermarriage is to non-whites, like Mark Zuckerberg
2) If it's to white-gentiles, it may be a later post-divorce relationship like Bernie Sanders. Bernie Sanders is married to a white-gentile woman, but his first wife with whom he had children is Jewish, thus his children are all-Jewish.
> Ask yourself this question: If Jews are intermarrying with white gentiles on a wide scale, then why is there continuing virulent anti-Semitism (like the (((..))) notation used by young people) on the white right, including among younger people, like Nick Fuentes, Andre Anglin, and many others?
Basically, they're using Jews as a symbol/scapegoat for the parts of Western Civilization they don't like.
At some point a significant percentage of the US population will likely have jewish ancestry. https://www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/news/one-fifth-of-spaniards-have-jewish-ancestry-study-reveals
This was in a place that was anti-semitic..
Currently the US is largely philosemitic, unless that changes-this is probably going to happen faster and wider than in Spain, and likely more with the white population then the less successful minority populations.
What percentage of college educate whites voted for Trump?
Around 45% for undergradudates only, around 40% for those with graduate/professional degrees according to exit polls.
What percentage of Jews (non ultra-Orthodox) have college degrees.
Education. U.S. Jewish adults are, on the whole, a comparatively well-educated group. Nearly six-in-ten are college graduates, including 28% who have obtained a postgraduate degree. By comparison, among U.S. adults overall, about three-in-ten are college graduates, including 11% who have a postgraduate degree. According to Pew Research.
And then one can add in that Most educated jews live in blue places such as California, New York, New Jersey, or Conn than the rest of the U.S.
The poll that found 79% of Jews voted for Kamala Harris has been described as *the largest*. I am quoting directly from the Times of Israel:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/79-of-us-jews-voted-for-harris-according-to-largest-preliminary-exit-poll/
"79% of US Jews voted for Harris, according to largest preliminary exit poll"
So I don't know how to square that word "largest" with the fact that it may have significant omissions. Was it a lie by the Times of Israel?
In any event, I take this poll at face value. It tells me that unfortunately Jews are an unassimilated minority that will never align with white-gentile interests in the US, and will always have a minority identity and outlook. The gap with white Christians (gentiles) remains far greater for American Jews than with any non-white minority. The Israel-Hamas stuff going on right now is kind of a red herring that obscures this -- hard to believe, I know, but that's what this poll result suggests. Jews in the US (with the exception of Soviet/Russian Jews, a notable subgroup that votes Republican) feel more comfortable around non-whites and are united with them against the core white majority. That's the general picture which remains unchanged even with the new Israel-Hamas war.
And this poll also disproves some other common myths. It's often been said that Orthodox Jews, in contrast to secular Jews, vote Republican. But Orthodox Jews with their large families are a sizable demographic which would be at odds with the overwhelming 79% figure, so many of them are probably also Democrats. I've also heard that Jews are intermarrying with Gentiles in large numbers. If that were true, their minority voting patterns would probably be less than they are in this poll.
In sum, rumors of Jews flocking to the right in the face of our new race-based/DEI era have been greatly exaggerated.
Yes, indeed, Jews will always be antiwhite in pursuit of their goal: a white minority USA.
This could change if they experience enough negative effects from interacting with nonwhites.
Yes, but by their interpretation of history, the persecution of Jews is dominated by the Europeans (Romans to Nazis). So the fear of a white majority is not illogical.
If that interpretation of history were all they had.
But Black anti-Semitism is quite strong. That's the "lived experience ", and not just recently. Norman Podhoritz fairly famously wrote about this being what happened to him in his youth, which was a long time ago.
Liberal Jews are still much more upset about their proverbial grandparent who was denied country club membership back in the '50s than they are about 10/7, which they'd prefer not to discuss, except for ritual denunciations of Netanyahu.
American Ashkenazim, unless they have some connection to Israel, still define themselves as in opposition to Christians and still expect a Cossack pogrom to break out at any moment. They can't help it, 500 years or so of having to sleep w one eye open will make you paranoid.
"ritual denunciations of Netanyahu"
The ones who do that have their orders to fake it?
social pressure, i guess
But it's "ritual" and they don't believe what they're saying?
"In any event, I take this poll at face value."
That's a choice.
The Tablet article gives STRONG reasons to believe (at a precinct level, in New York) that what you call a "common myth" about Orthodox Jews is not a myth. So if, as you say, "Orthodox Jews with their large families are a sizable demographic which would be at odds with the overwhelming 79% figure" that points to the 79% exit poll being wrong.
What have YOU got?
" The Israel-Hamas stuff going on right now is kind of a red herring that obscures this -- hard to believe, I know, but that's what this poll result suggests."
The 79% number says the "Israel-Hamas stuff" obscured nothing since it affected nothing.
If that's hard to believe maybe what you shouldn't believe is the 79% number,
Jews have turned right, or rather, the political spectrum migrated over the past ten years to place more Jews on the Trumpian right. That doesn't mean they will abandon their lifelong political identity and vote republican.
Given the (still) intense focus on identity in western countries, what effect will the USA's new MENA (Middle Easterner-North African) jelly bean counting category have on American Jews? Are they (or at least the younger generations among them) more or less likely to decouple from "Whites" and flock to the new identity, claiming it for those of Jewish descent? Surely they have, at least for a time, Arabs and other MENAs outnumbered. Gonna get interesting...
I've been been asking about that for a decade, but I've never seen any research on it.
Israelis are explicitly included in MENA. There is some talk that Armenians are excluded from MENA because polling showed they didn't want to be in it. There doesn't seem to have been any public statements from Administration officials about non-Israeli Jews. The topic doesn't seem to have come up, at least not in public. My view is that anything that could influence the self-identification of the Ashkenazim is potentially a big deal, but the Biden Administration seems to have figured, "What, me worry?"
"Israelis are explicitly included in MENA."
Makes sense for Mizrahi. For Sephardi and, particularly, Ashkenazi, not so much,
As to "decoupl[ing] from "Whites" and flock[ing] to the new identity" (Bicker), until it comes with "Affirmative Action" benefits I'd expect it to be ignored.