“Hey, look at this guy in a dress, and that’s funny.” It’s absolutely not funny.
Oh, it's funny.
Why do sex changes now come with a humor-ectomy where the True Authentic Self™ is revealed as a dour preachy moralist who imagines themselves as some kind of apostle of liberation? Why is it a hate crime if I refuse to validate your fantasy life?
The Hero's Journey has been replaced by the apotheosis of the Sacred Victim, yet the Hero remains very proud and touchy, demanding only worship and never mockery.
Nothing to do with any political principle, I rarely find drag funny and I'm not going to pretend just to be based. It's kind of like a character being stoned. Some writers think this is automatically funny but it's actually more difficult to write a stoned funny character. It's nearly impossible to make drag funny IMO.
The funny thing about the Janet Reno sketch (aside from the gag about her guilt over Waco) is how insanely mean it is. It's meta to me; like I laugh a little at the shock of them making fun of how plain and manly Janet Reno was. I assume Reno knew she was not a looker, and wasn't happy about it. She was famous, but never tried to fob herself off as famous and hot. I just imagine how I would have felt if I were a public servant and SNL did a sketch in which the gag was that I am one of the most unattractive people in politics.
> The funny thing about the Janet Reno sketch (aside from the gag about her guilt over Waco) is how insanely mean it is
I don't mean if you mean "ha ha funny" or "ironically funny" here, but Janet Reno was a woman who lacked all femininity. To have a tall, deep-voiced man like Will Ferrell play her was spot-on. It wouldn't have worked if it was Chris Kattan, who always came across as faggy.
> WF: That’s something I wouldn’t choose to do now
In a similar vein, on Friends Chander Bing's father was a drag queen in Las Vegas. On the show, the father was played by Kathleen Turner, which worked because she is Amazonian with a deep voice. On the show it was left unstated if Chandler's father was transgendered or merely a man who performed as a woman professionally, although he showed up to Chandler's wedding and pre-wedding activities dressed as a woman. To use the vernacular of the time, he was a cross-dresser.
As an aside, the creators of Friends have disavowed how they handled the character and have emphatically stated that playing the situation for laughs was the wrong thing to do; after all, why would you want to play something for laughs on a sitcom.
As another aside, Chandler's mother was played by the very feminine Morgan Fairchild. I have had multiple students named Morgan over the years, mostly girls but some boys. I have mentioned to them that once upon a time Morgan was considered to be strictly a boys' name, but Morgan Fairchild changed that single handedly. Of course one of them told me that Friends was before her time, which made me feel old.
The funny part about Chandler's dad being a drag queen was related to how Chandler's back story was all about the trauma of his dad turning out to be gay and then having to have Thanksgiving with the pool boy (or whatever his dad's lover was). So decades later the psychological tension as he had to talk to his dad(?) created the funny. I think it's gross when comedy writers apologize for stuff like this because the fashions changed
I can't say I've ever been drawn to it either, especially in those things where it was the principle gag - Tootsie or Some Like It Hot or whatnot. OTOH it would be a shame if Monty Python or Key & Peele didn't have the toolkit to play the full range of parts.
I don't think it's going away - even Mark Twain has a pretty funny drag scene, merely on the page - but curiously the celebration of all things drag seems to threaten that it must go away, in comedy made for the great unwashed.
Even though when it's done seriously, yet performatively, the effect is still somehow - not humorous, but parodic of actual women, as if being unattractive is the key indicator of a woman over 30.*
*The loss of attractiveness with age, slowly then rapidly, is a fact of life, but is it kind to fixate on it?
I liked all the stuff in "Tootsie" that didn't involve Dustin Hoffman as a woman. Monty Python was different because they were playing the least interesting kind of middle aged woman, not even trying to be feminist icons like Tootsie. It was a weird effect that I think Eric Idle did best. There is also a tradition of upper class WASPs doing drag shows as part of events. The Bohemian Grove gatherings I think always had a drag show. Also, Bugs Bunny in drag, yay or nay?
Your comment perhaps inadvertently gets at what is truly "avant-garde" about the whole business, and why it is so very modern and acrid.
>"the least interesting kind of middle aged woman"
Women are so boring - and so lesser - that they aren't even the best at being women. Men with sufficient bravado will show them up.
And I mean, it's true about being an old woman. It's a drag, they are often a drag. Old men may feel a loss of power but they don't in my opinion know the surplus-to-requirements that is being an older woman.
It's kind of like how, there's a vibe that exists, say when you're in the grocery store and a guy gay couple are next to you shopping. As a heterosexual woman you just don't exist for them. It's very much a feeling of being invisible. It's different than the vibe that exists with other adults, coupled or single. Nor is any of this a sexual matter.
I think in that case, though, the feeling that's given off in those situations is probably pretty natural.
Less natural is this related feeling I get from the world of drag and middle-aged transformations of this type.
Instead of homage, it's more like an assertion of superiority, of narcissism, and ultimately a floating of the idea that there is something repellent about women (to echo a gag from "The Office").
And in case it’s not obvious, I’m not a feminist and I feel no anger about any of this. It almost seems like it takes a non-feminist to admit that everything isn’t always pro-woman, all-the-time, going forward. I have no ground to give up.
I've heard the invisible idea before. I assumed it came from the fact that 50% or more of young women start getting excess attention from the time they are 15 and it comes to seem normal. When the attention level goes back to normal level later in life, it feels like 'invisible'. But I think I get your point- when you strip away sexual desire, a lot of men (even a lot of women) have underlying contempt for the feminine. I think you're saying that drag is essentially - "feminine is simultaneously easy to pull off and comically stupid so why would anyone want to do it...except for laughs?" Is that it?
I think so? - although I wouldn’t suggest that the people like Will Ferrell’s writing partner are actually trolling. In fact, it might be said that the culture has trolled their damaged psyches. As it trolls all of us in certain ways.
Sex is very important to men even as they age (or rather, even as their wives sorta begin to think, oh, you’re never going to age out of it … sorry for the brutal honesty).
So even if it is just about sex, as per our host, I’m sure it’s quite vividly real to these people that he “collects” for his cabinet of curiosities.
And also, an element perhaps of - women have an easier time, there are no expectations of achievement of them; a woman is a vessel in which none of my masculine trauma has entered or ever will … and yet, as somebody on the thread points out, they don’t exactly choose to fade into the wallpaper like a woman of no particular consequence.
It seems like we are in theory past that - I see people jump to apologize on the internet all the time if they have indicated a dislike of some (hated individual) on grounds that might be construed as their looks or some physical attribute. "One of the most unattractive people" - I think the gag wouldn't fly now if it were e.g. a Democratic woman, but a "rightwing" (?) woman's looks would be fair game. I am remembering the only few minutes I ever heard of that NPR show where people guess answers about the week's headlines (admittedly I never understood this game, it would be like having a "trivia" contest at school over attention to the week's lessons) and it was about five minutes of uproarious baying interspersed with quips about Mitch McConnell looking like a turtle, or genitalia, etc. all prompted by a purported "letter from a listener" upset about the previous episode's jibes at his appearance.
I remember as a kid going to a junior high Halloween dance. I have no recollection of what I went as. Or any of my few friends, all drawn from among the non-popular 80%.
But I remember that the cute, “popular” boys arrived in a group - as they did everything in a group - as a Girl Scout troop. They all had sisters with Girl Scout uniforms, apparently; and one of their mothers must have channeled her skit-making sorority days.
You just reminded me of the one time I found drag funny. Three very masculine red state guys from my fraternity, impulse bought cheap women's housecoats from a drug store in Central Square. They were standing at the bar, drinking beer, talking about whatever, all wearing housecoats. I burst. Just thinking about it now...still hilarious. Perhaps live theater has an immediacy that cannot be duplicated through a screen :)
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."
-These dudes in dresses, along with the half-a-men sticking their eggplants in poop shoots, prove daily why they were outlawed and shunned in healthy societies.
As a fan of The Office I am constantly reminded how unfunny Will Ferrell is, as he was brought on temporarily to replace Steve Carrell as the boss on the show. At this point I think the showrunners did this on purpose; they made the character so awful that they could replace Steve Carrell for good the next season with less difficulty.
"Steele: I think if you look in a comedy room, you’re looking at a lot of disassociation and people who are hiding things. We know that because people are drug addicts;
After all, in SNL’s half century on the air, no viewer ever got the impression that any of the performers or writers might have drug issues."
I don't read this as 'we know people were hiding their drug issue'. I think he means that the drug issues indicate dissociation and hiding other problems.
"As of February 2020, there are 50+ official chapters of DSH, spread internationally, as well as other drag artists holding reading events at libraries, SCHOOLS, bookstores, and museums....
Drag storytime events at SCHOOLS are supported by the National Education Union (NEU), the largest teacher's union in the United Kingdom"
And still no name of a single public school in the U.S. that has had drag queen story hour during regular school time. That would be the definition of forcing students to participate.
I did not move the goalpost. I would like to know of a specific public school (in the U.S.) that has had a Drag Queen Story Hour during school hours. None of the cites mention a single public school in the U.S.
One is telling a lie by being vague and mixing countries.
Steve, I'm mostly with you on this autogynophilia thing and the fact that now that it's a trend, you have to suspect the majority of teenage girls coming down with transgenderism actually have other issue. But for counterpoint- I have a friend who had a work colleague who was a transexual woman (i.e. had the sex change operation). Turns out this woman was pointed out to me back in the 1980s at MIT. She was striking. I only saw her from across the way but it was clear to me she was an unconvincing woman. She was super tall, maybe six and half feet (though heels might have been involved). She was well known, and gawked at. She was driven out. So she did this when it was most assuredly not a cool thing to do. My friend further tells me that back then they did excessive testing and waiting to make damn sure you were sure you wanted to become a lady. So I infer this was a sincere case. I guess there is a chance she was just a super dedicated autogynophiliac, but I tend towards sincerity.
She, in her man days, did manly things like playing football. I could be misremembering. but I think as a man he played division I football and based on her build I'd guess tight end or linebacker. So I asked your question about how someone who is so obviously masculine can later claim they were a little girl inside all along. My friend said he asked that question.
The response was that when she was a he and hated having all these thoughts of being a woman, he thought maybe if he leaned into doing super masculine things, the thoughts would go away and he would be cured...but they didn't.
The conventional wisdom is that that all the masculine stuff these late-onset ex-men did before announcing they were a woman was a psy-op, a one man (or to be precise woman pretending to be a man) conspiracy that successfully fools the world.
Of course, then they keep on doing masculine stuff afterwards like being ruthlessly aggressive.
I don't much believe in psy-ops that fool everybody. I especially don't believe them in the cultural sphere on national television. Over the years, millions of people watched Will Ferrell on Saturday Night Live. Did anybody of them notice that Will's writer Andrew Steele brought a female point of view to Will's sketches? Did Will?
A lot of intelligent, perceptive people waste a lot of of time writing intelligently and perceptively about things like Saturday Night Live or the books of James-Jan Morris. Where's the evidence that any of them noticed ahead of time?
Compare it to the analogous question of which performers or writers are gay even when they want to stay in the closet. A lot of critics come up with pretty accurate perceptions ahead of an announcement.
But with late onset MtoF's, we are supposed to believe that in this one category, their brilliant psy-ops fooled the world.
"Of course, then they keep on doing masculine stuff afterwards like being ruthlessly aggressive." That's convincing. I mean once you are out why would you continue to put on the act. I agree that people in their personal lives and who worked with them should probably not have been surprised when they turned out trans, just as they would not have if they turned out gay. I didn't see the documentary. Was Will Farrel taken by surprise? If so, I'd agree he seems like the late onset type you are talking about.
As far as it being obvious in his comedy sketch were it true- I dunno. I'm not sure I could say what would have been a trans tell in an SNL sketch. Maybe making Will dress up in drag? Do you think you can reliably tell girl comedy from boy comedy (aside from one be much funnier on average)?
Will Ferrell was one of the handful of highest earning comics in America from, say, 2000 to 2010. Perhaps he was the highest earning comedian/comic actor. I go hiking past a driveway that I've been told leads up to Will's estate. I don't know if it really is, but it's one of the best pieces of property in the Hollywood Hills. My view is that if it is, Will Ferrell deserves it. He's brought a gigantic amount of laughter into the world.
Thus, Will was for years an obsessive center of attention for countless other extraordinarily perceptive comic talents. The 1000th highest paid funny guy in America is usually extremely insightful about the 1st highest paid funny guy.
Did any of them ever point out that one of Will's top writers was clearly a woman on the inside?
No, none of them did.
Why not?
Occam's Razor says: Because Andrew Steele wasn't really a woman.
I get your toy example below. I'm trying to think, what would the tells be for an adult? If your assumption is the 1000th funniest guy should have sussed it out, I figure that's analogous to me sussing out a guy at work. If you were a woman on the inside, but had an average male load of testosterone, and male vocal chords, bones, and musculature...what would it be? Lack of interest in male hobbies? Obsession with the royal family? Gossipyness? Gay voice? I don't think of gay voice as womanly; it's its own thing. I understand and agree with your examples of hard charging CEOs who learn to land fighter jets on aircraft carriers in their spare time. But what if you present as an averagely masculine guy?
Upthread, Erik wrote, "So I infer this [person I knew in the 1980s at MIT] was a sincere case. I guess there is a chance she was just a super dedicated autogynophiliac, but I tend towards sincerity."
Contra Erik, pre-WWT autogynephilia strikes me as entirely sincere -- who would choose to suffer the social penalties, as opposed to being driven to do so? In the Current Year, this seems to continue to hold for most high-accomplishment, high-IQ, high-aggression men who turn into transwomen in midlife.
As NYT Magazine reporter David Marchese illustrates and celebrates, the costs are now lower and the benefits higher. This obviously changes the "do I stay or do I go" analysis for "Sinceres" like Andrew/Harper Steele, and obviously, too, opens new opportunities for boys and men of more prosaic passions (winning medals, romancing lesbians, etc.).
I await the applications of Mr. Marchese's Journalism skill set to the findings of the Cass Report, the WPATH Standards-of-Care scandals, and the anguished accounts of teen and young-adult de-transitioners (1).
The New York Times could commission a poll: "If elite trendsetters and influencers at prestige media organizations start a campaign to valorize xenomelia (2), will the incidence of non-medical limb amputations __Increase, __Decrease, or __Stay the same?"
Ground Zero for Luxury Beliefs (3): the editorial suites overlooking Times Square.
.
(1) Evolutionary biologist Colin Wright PhD has posted de-transitioners' accounts at his Substack, "Reality's Last Stand" -- https://substack.com/@colinwright
Steve, if you read the autobiographies of the autogynephilic types, one would learn that they were into cross dressing and other aspects of being trans in private for years before coming out in public. One can argue that it is part of the sexual fetish but being autogynephilic is not a switch that is just flipped late in life.
But were they into playing with girls' toys and other non-sexual female behavior before puberty?
I knew an effeminate little boy who was really into girls' toys from age 3 onward. When little girls would ask him about it, he'd say, "I'm really into girls toys, that's just the way I am." A quarter of a century later he was into being a drag queen.
He never felt the urge to win the men's Decathlon Gold Medal.
I believe that effeminate little boys have a higher preponderance of being homosexual later in life as you (Steve) have discussed before in the differences between gay and lesbians.
I think he's drawing the distinction between being autogyephilic and being true transgender. They both would start early but the only behavior the autogynophile would exhibit would be dressing up as a girl.
I suspect the gay ones are powerfully attracted to straight men, and becoming a woman is the only way to attract them. See the fantasy of the Crying Game and M. Butterfly. It's their misfortune that the men who accept them aren't exactly straight.
twenty years ago if a straight man said he didn't want to get Crying Gamed, the other side would make fun of him-'nobody wants to trick you! get over yourself! such behavior is against the tranny code of ethics!'
Twenty years later- 'how dare you even object to a trans woman not revealing her status before sexual intercourse? There is no difference! It's all just women!'
Across the media (legacy and social), much of what used to be considered "private" is now fair game. But in a contrary trend, certain uncomfortable facets of the male-to-female transgender life are now treated with the same prudery that caused Victorians to hide the legs of their tables under drapery.
Namely, "Your account of your post-coming-out dating life is fascinating! So tell me, as feminine as you now are, did you decide to keep the male plumbing you were born with, or go for the upgrade?"
Mental illness. There is no such thing as a metaphysical female mind being deposited by mistake into a male body. Other than dress like their moms did when she was in her 40s, there is not a single feminine attribute about these men.
I agree that a lot of it is mental illness but why are you sure that a male body couldn't get female brain wiring. Seems to me you either accept the blank slate idea, in which case society could make any person with any complement of sex chromosomes into any gender, or you think it's in born, that people are wired that way. If it's inborn wiring, how could you know it's impossible to get the wrong wiring unless you know how they wiring process is linked to the sex chromosomes...which we do not?
That's low-hanging fruit for a team of PhD neurologists: scan a bunch of women's brains, scan a bunch of male trannies' brains. And just like that, you've proved female brains can end up in male bodies, validating the entire establishment Narrative on this issue and revealing the behavior of 60 yr old men dressing like their moms and aunts did 30 yrs ago is due to innate female brain wiring.
Nothing about the transgender MtF hypothesis makes any sense, other than turbo-charged narcissism, which is probably what the brain scans would show. None of these men suddenly become beta personalities, go into caregiver professions, acquire a big henhouse of female friends, etc. Same on the FtM side: none of these women start hanging out with men, smoking cigars, take up woodworking, develop alpha personalities, etc.
The brain studies you describe have been done. The results are not clear cut -- both male and female humans exhibit diversity -- but I know of no evidence in support of a "born into the wrong body" narrative. See evolutionary biologist Colin Wright's Substack "Reality's Last Stand" for writeups.
In decades past, some relatively constant and quite tiny fraction of men would find greater happiness by living as women, and vice versa. See Buck Angel as a contemporary instance of the latter.
In the first decade of the 2000s, those tiny fractions grew tenfold, and then perhaps another tenfold to the present day. I note the wave of "regret" lawsuits that is now starting to gain momentum. It is one more indication that wholesale sterilization and mutilation of children and young adults was not the correct way to ensure that those suffering from these very rare syndromes would be treated.
Alas there are no such scans, or rather current knowledge and brain scans do not resolve the question (as AMac78 Notes). It's kind of like how we all assumed with the human genome sequenced we would find the genes that cause heart attacks. Turns out complex systems are complex and have what are called 'emergent properties' our little pea-brains aren't good enough to disentangle it all yet.
While I agree that a lot of the current transgenders are not genuine in the sense you mean, I have see some pretty convincing transgender women on YouTube. Maybe it is psychopathology rather than what they claim but I don't see how to figure that out. I'm not prepared to accept the assertion that it's BS solely on the grounds that you and I can't grok it
genuine transgender would be sex opposite of gender as opposed to a person who is male gender but turned on by the thought of looking like a woman or being perceived as a woman or seeing himself as a woman
Hannibal explains it all in 1991's "Silence of the Lambs," which I'm sure Steele saw, thought about, and maybe even spoofed on SNL. If you've ever run across one of these guys "in real life," they have an aggressive energy to them that cleaves mania/shame with (almost) every startling word that exits their mouths. Unnerving to be around them. It's blindingly obvious that catering to their whims is societally suicidal. But, at the moment, here we are.
I find it remarkable how little curiosity the general public shows over the trans issue.
Progressives support “trans rights” but don’t even appear to notice that different things are motivating the Thai homosexual ladyboy, the middle-aged macho American white man who claims he’s a woman, and teenage girls who want to cut their breasts off and retreat from the world.
Just another example of the leftist impulse to lump rather than split (e.g., see their practice of talking merely about “immigrants”, while acting as if there’s no difference between Swiss bankers and Somali goatherds).
That's a good question: who is more inclined to lump rather than split: left or right?
Keep in mind that while splitters tend to more intelligent, a few lumpers tend to be the really brilliant, such as Joseph Greenberg's lumping of hundreds of New World Indian languages into just a few.
All part of "Othering," if we're analyzing the phenom correctly, e.g. Do all Georgia rednecks "lump" Yankee academics, journalists, and bankers together incorrectly? (A: No/Yes. They all attended an Ivy together, but were in diff eating clubs. Very tricky distinctions! Reunions are subtle experiences.) Do those lockstep lib Yankees "split" GA rednecks from their black redneck neighbors in Savannah incorrectly? (A: Yes/No. The black church ladies and white rednecks all attend Sunday services - Baptists, but diff churches in town - all want Sav cops to patrol their streets to control teen black youths [often gr-grandkids of ch ladies], but...vote blue vs red in most elections.) Insert shrugging emoji here, of course. 🤷♂️
I would think the readers of NYT were progressive. But there are several comments complaining about trans “women:” they’re invading women’s spaces. I’ve noticed a strong feminist trend in their readers and some see it as just men horning their way in (I agree),
It would be a lot to expect that people whose principal way of interacting with the world involves hysteria, should utterly pass up a golden opportunity for hysteria, even if it was manufactured by their side and renders their worldview an absolute muddle.
I haven't watched SNL for decades. It had long ceased to be funny enough to stay up for although I understand that true fans of the show were up anyway and desperate for ANY entertainment. But that pre-dates any of this so I don't have much to say.
Season 30-Season 31 eps. 1-10: Tina Fey and Andrew Steele
Season 31 eps. 11-19: Tina Fey, Andrew Steele, and Seth Meyers
Seasons 32-33: Andrew Steele, Seth Meyers, and Paula Pell
"
Tina Fey turned out to be funny once she got her own show, but the other three never did anything funny that I've heard about. By "coincidence" 2/3 of them have some kind paraphiliac disorder.
Girls5eva (Paula Pell) had some really great lines - and I never even saw 30Rock which it’s said to resemble.
And as for Seth Meyers, certain of the “Documentary Now” episodes are practically an excuse for why everything that came before, culturally, had to happen just as it did.
That said, I think it is for a niche audience, I never see it mentioned and efforts to mention have been unsuccessful. That said, the people in my orbit aren’t the sharpest tools and would find “Documentary Now” a tricky google search.
Okay, those sounded like plausibly funny concepts, so I watched the trailers and some episode highlights of "Girls5eva" and “Documentary Now”, l and . . .
I still haven't heard anything funny from those guys.
That doesn't surprise me at all! You have to have an affinity for a pretty narrow or aslant slice of pop culture, to like "Documentary Now". I'm actually surprised it got as much attention as it did. "Juan Loves Chicken and Rice" only works if you've seen "Jiro Dreams of Sushi" - and yet to find it funny you almost have to be the sort of person who would never get all the way through "Jiro Dreams of Sushi". At least, that was me.
I hope you find something you like. I don't have much access so am not a good recommender - the only reason I had Netflix for a month was for the new season of Cobra Kai - but I realized I hadn't laughed at a TV show in years. And I was almost too old for Girls5eva, but not quite.
I don't see another M*A*S*H (funny for anyone) coming along any time soon.
The girl in Girls5eva, whose name I have forgotten, Stanberry or Newberry, is almost unrecognizable but terrific in "Co-op: Cast Album" (which again, works if you have an affection for the 70s, or if you in passing on PBS saw some of the "Company" cast album documentary, or if you're a theater kid - two of three for me - and probably not otherwise?).
Yeah, I could kinda see the DN guys had some reference in mind and were going about parodying it in some kind of exquisitely sophisticated way, but c'mon, not everyone is a niche culture maven, and at some point ya just wanna hava laugh.
Fred Armisen and Carrie Brownstein, who're in DN, did some pretty funny satire of Portland, which I appreciated even though I've never been to Portland. They got to what's funny underneath so I could get the joke even without knowing Portland. So it is possible to make something funny without asking the audience to look up the source material and do homework.
Similarly, Monty Python was both funny and sophisticated, and yet could also be appreciated by those outside England who didn't know all the niche English references.
I haven’t seen “Nanook of the North” (though was not wholly ignorant of it), and found the takeoff pretty funny. The Grey Gardens one is terrific. I’d suggest if you’re not familiar with Grey Gardens, then no, this genre is not for you.
I kind of loved OG Grey Gardens though. I’m a little Grey Gardens myself.
“The clips I have seen are very offensive to women and girls. Humans cannot change sex. Being a woman is not a feeling or an identity. Sex is real, material and fundamental to our rights as women.
“Men in dresses are men in dresses. A dress does not make a man a woman. You know this.”
I hope a dress doesn't make a woman, because I haven't worn one in years.
I bought a secondhand tee-shirt dress online, from Poshmark, thinking that it would feel cool on hot days, and that maybe I don't necessarily have to dress like a toddler all summer, even if I am always going to wear jeans all winter.
It arrived and I thought it made me look like Hazel from TV for some reason. It had a maid uniform quality. (Once I get an idea like that in my head, it can never be dislodged.) So I cut the top off and sewed down a waistband, set in elastic, and am now dipping my toe into wearing skirts again.
Real women alter their clothes; I hope she knows that.
“Hey, look at this guy in a dress, and that’s funny.” It’s absolutely not funny.
Oh, it's funny.
Why do sex changes now come with a humor-ectomy where the True Authentic Self™ is revealed as a dour preachy moralist who imagines themselves as some kind of apostle of liberation? Why is it a hate crime if I refuse to validate your fantasy life?
The Hero's Journey has been replaced by the apotheosis of the Sacred Victim, yet the Hero remains very proud and touchy, demanding only worship and never mockery.
Nothing to do with any political principle, I rarely find drag funny and I'm not going to pretend just to be based. It's kind of like a character being stoned. Some writers think this is automatically funny but it's actually more difficult to write a stoned funny character. It's nearly impossible to make drag funny IMO.
The funny thing about the Janet Reno sketch (aside from the gag about her guilt over Waco) is how insanely mean it is. It's meta to me; like I laugh a little at the shock of them making fun of how plain and manly Janet Reno was. I assume Reno knew she was not a looker, and wasn't happy about it. She was famous, but never tried to fob herself off as famous and hot. I just imagine how I would have felt if I were a public servant and SNL did a sketch in which the gag was that I am one of the most unattractive people in politics.
> The funny thing about the Janet Reno sketch (aside from the gag about her guilt over Waco) is how insanely mean it is
I don't mean if you mean "ha ha funny" or "ironically funny" here, but Janet Reno was a woman who lacked all femininity. To have a tall, deep-voiced man like Will Ferrell play her was spot-on. It wouldn't have worked if it was Chris Kattan, who always came across as faggy.
> WF: That’s something I wouldn’t choose to do now
In a similar vein, on Friends Chander Bing's father was a drag queen in Las Vegas. On the show, the father was played by Kathleen Turner, which worked because she is Amazonian with a deep voice. On the show it was left unstated if Chandler's father was transgendered or merely a man who performed as a woman professionally, although he showed up to Chandler's wedding and pre-wedding activities dressed as a woman. To use the vernacular of the time, he was a cross-dresser.
As an aside, the creators of Friends have disavowed how they handled the character and have emphatically stated that playing the situation for laughs was the wrong thing to do; after all, why would you want to play something for laughs on a sitcom.
As another aside, Chandler's mother was played by the very feminine Morgan Fairchild. I have had multiple students named Morgan over the years, mostly girls but some boys. I have mentioned to them that once upon a time Morgan was considered to be strictly a boys' name, but Morgan Fairchild changed that single handedly. Of course one of them told me that Friends was before her time, which made me feel old.
The funny part about Chandler's dad being a drag queen was related to how Chandler's back story was all about the trauma of his dad turning out to be gay and then having to have Thanksgiving with the pool boy (or whatever his dad's lover was). So decades later the psychological tension as he had to talk to his dad(?) created the funny. I think it's gross when comedy writers apologize for stuff like this because the fashions changed
I can't say I've ever been drawn to it either, especially in those things where it was the principle gag - Tootsie or Some Like It Hot or whatnot. OTOH it would be a shame if Monty Python or Key & Peele didn't have the toolkit to play the full range of parts.
I don't think it's going away - even Mark Twain has a pretty funny drag scene, merely on the page - but curiously the celebration of all things drag seems to threaten that it must go away, in comedy made for the great unwashed.
Even though when it's done seriously, yet performatively, the effect is still somehow - not humorous, but parodic of actual women, as if being unattractive is the key indicator of a woman over 30.*
*The loss of attractiveness with age, slowly then rapidly, is a fact of life, but is it kind to fixate on it?
I liked all the stuff in "Tootsie" that didn't involve Dustin Hoffman as a woman. Monty Python was different because they were playing the least interesting kind of middle aged woman, not even trying to be feminist icons like Tootsie. It was a weird effect that I think Eric Idle did best. There is also a tradition of upper class WASPs doing drag shows as part of events. The Bohemian Grove gatherings I think always had a drag show. Also, Bugs Bunny in drag, yay or nay?
Your comment perhaps inadvertently gets at what is truly "avant-garde" about the whole business, and why it is so very modern and acrid.
>"the least interesting kind of middle aged woman"
Women are so boring - and so lesser - that they aren't even the best at being women. Men with sufficient bravado will show them up.
And I mean, it's true about being an old woman. It's a drag, they are often a drag. Old men may feel a loss of power but they don't in my opinion know the surplus-to-requirements that is being an older woman.
It's kind of like how, there's a vibe that exists, say when you're in the grocery store and a guy gay couple are next to you shopping. As a heterosexual woman you just don't exist for them. It's very much a feeling of being invisible. It's different than the vibe that exists with other adults, coupled or single. Nor is any of this a sexual matter.
I think in that case, though, the feeling that's given off in those situations is probably pretty natural.
Less natural is this related feeling I get from the world of drag and middle-aged transformations of this type.
Instead of homage, it's more like an assertion of superiority, of narcissism, and ultimately a floating of the idea that there is something repellent about women (to echo a gag from "The Office").
And in case it’s not obvious, I’m not a feminist and I feel no anger about any of this. It almost seems like it takes a non-feminist to admit that everything isn’t always pro-woman, all-the-time, going forward. I have no ground to give up.
I've heard the invisible idea before. I assumed it came from the fact that 50% or more of young women start getting excess attention from the time they are 15 and it comes to seem normal. When the attention level goes back to normal level later in life, it feels like 'invisible'. But I think I get your point- when you strip away sexual desire, a lot of men (even a lot of women) have underlying contempt for the feminine. I think you're saying that drag is essentially - "feminine is simultaneously easy to pull off and comically stupid so why would anyone want to do it...except for laughs?" Is that it?
I think so? - although I wouldn’t suggest that the people like Will Ferrell’s writing partner are actually trolling. In fact, it might be said that the culture has trolled their damaged psyches. As it trolls all of us in certain ways.
Sex is very important to men even as they age (or rather, even as their wives sorta begin to think, oh, you’re never going to age out of it … sorry for the brutal honesty).
So even if it is just about sex, as per our host, I’m sure it’s quite vividly real to these people that he “collects” for his cabinet of curiosities.
And also, an element perhaps of - women have an easier time, there are no expectations of achievement of them; a woman is a vessel in which none of my masculine trauma has entered or ever will … and yet, as somebody on the thread points out, they don’t exactly choose to fade into the wallpaper like a woman of no particular consequence.
It's rather more like going the shaman route.
It seems like we are in theory past that - I see people jump to apologize on the internet all the time if they have indicated a dislike of some (hated individual) on grounds that might be construed as their looks or some physical attribute. "One of the most unattractive people" - I think the gag wouldn't fly now if it were e.g. a Democratic woman, but a "rightwing" (?) woman's looks would be fair game. I am remembering the only few minutes I ever heard of that NPR show where people guess answers about the week's headlines (admittedly I never understood this game, it would be like having a "trivia" contest at school over attention to the week's lessons) and it was about five minutes of uproarious baying interspersed with quips about Mitch McConnell looking like a turtle, or genitalia, etc. all prompted by a purported "letter from a listener" upset about the previous episode's jibes at his appearance.
"Humor-ectomy"
:-)
I’ve always found drag kind of anti-funny. It’s a standard part of theatre for millennia so obviously my view isn’t standard.
Likewise anyone who churns out several sketches a week for a living is hardly going to be able to avoid it.
It’s a bit silly to expect someone to sincerely regret material from decades past.
I remember as a kid going to a junior high Halloween dance. I have no recollection of what I went as. Or any of my few friends, all drawn from among the non-popular 80%.
But I remember that the cute, “popular” boys arrived in a group - as they did everything in a group - as a Girl Scout troop. They all had sisters with Girl Scout uniforms, apparently; and one of their mothers must have channeled her skit-making sorority days.
And they were cuter than ever, and they knew it.
You just reminded me of the one time I found drag funny. Three very masculine red state guys from my fraternity, impulse bought cheap women's housecoats from a drug store in Central Square. They were standing at the bar, drinking beer, talking about whatever, all wearing housecoats. I burst. Just thinking about it now...still hilarious. Perhaps live theater has an immediacy that cannot be duplicated through a screen :)
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."
-These dudes in dresses, along with the half-a-men sticking their eggplants in poop shoots, prove daily why they were outlawed and shunned in healthy societies.
I'd forgotten how utterly charmless and unfunny Ferrell is, with plenty of help from Steele. I'd rather watch the donkeys.
As a fan of The Office I am constantly reminded how unfunny Will Ferrell is, as he was brought on temporarily to replace Steve Carrell as the boss on the show. At this point I think the showrunners did this on purpose; they made the character so awful that they could replace Steve Carrell for good the next season with less difficulty.
"Steele: I think if you look in a comedy room, you’re looking at a lot of disassociation and people who are hiding things. We know that because people are drug addicts;
After all, in SNL’s half century on the air, no viewer ever got the impression that any of the performers or writers might have drug issues."
I don't read this as 'we know people were hiding their drug issue'. I think he means that the drug issues indicate dissociation and hiding other problems.
Slightly OT:
We've seen videos of "Drag Queen Story Hour" foisted on primarily White schools.
Has anyone seen it foisted on primarily Black schools?
I'm guessing "No" -- and we know why.
Yep say what you want about blacks, but they ain't got time for that shit, and it would probably get physical fast if they tried it.
RuPaul would like to have a few words with you.
LOL, do you think he pulls that shit in actual black areas?
The Drag Queen Story Hour is more of a library thing. If one knows of a public school doing it, then please provide a cite.
Jeez, do a search:
"'Drag Queen Story Hour' (DQSH) became a regular event at North American libraries, SCHOOLS, and bookstores beginning in 2015."
-- https://www.feministcurrent.com/2022/06/26/why-do-children-need-drag-queen-story-hour/
"As of February 2020, there are 50+ official chapters of DSH, spread internationally, as well as other drag artists holding reading events at libraries, SCHOOLS, bookstores, and museums....
Drag storytime events at SCHOOLS are supported by the National Education Union (NEU), the largest teacher's union in the United Kingdom"
-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_Queen_Story_Hour
"U.K.'s largest teacher union votes for more drag queens in SCHOOLS"
-- https://tvpworld.com/69062080/uks-largest-teacher-union-votes-for-more-drag-queens-in-SCHOOLS
"Drag Queen Story Hour Renames Organization Drag Story Hour" -- (SCHOOL Library Journal)
-- https://www.SCHOOLlibraryjournal.com/story/Drag-Queen-Story-Hour-Renames-Organization-Drag-Story-Hour
"The ABC, PlaySCHOOL, and drag queen story hour"
-- https://www.spectator.com.au/2022/11/the-abc-playSCHOOL-and-drag-queen-story-hour/
And still no name of a single public school in the U.S. that has had drag queen story hour during regular school time. That would be the definition of forcing students to participate.
I provided massive evidence in response to your request.
Now you're moving the goalposts.
I shouldn't have wasted my time.
I did not move the goalpost. I would like to know of a specific public school (in the U.S.) that has had a Drag Queen Story Hour during school hours. None of the cites mention a single public school in the U.S.
One is telling a lie by being vague and mixing countries.
That's not the request you originally made. Don't lie to me about not moving the goalposts. You're not helpless. Do your own search. Goodbye.
Steve, I'm mostly with you on this autogynophilia thing and the fact that now that it's a trend, you have to suspect the majority of teenage girls coming down with transgenderism actually have other issue. But for counterpoint- I have a friend who had a work colleague who was a transexual woman (i.e. had the sex change operation). Turns out this woman was pointed out to me back in the 1980s at MIT. She was striking. I only saw her from across the way but it was clear to me she was an unconvincing woman. She was super tall, maybe six and half feet (though heels might have been involved). She was well known, and gawked at. She was driven out. So she did this when it was most assuredly not a cool thing to do. My friend further tells me that back then they did excessive testing and waiting to make damn sure you were sure you wanted to become a lady. So I infer this was a sincere case. I guess there is a chance she was just a super dedicated autogynophiliac, but I tend towards sincerity.
She, in her man days, did manly things like playing football. I could be misremembering. but I think as a man he played division I football and based on her build I'd guess tight end or linebacker. So I asked your question about how someone who is so obviously masculine can later claim they were a little girl inside all along. My friend said he asked that question.
The response was that when she was a he and hated having all these thoughts of being a woman, he thought maybe if he leaned into doing super masculine things, the thoughts would go away and he would be cured...but they didn't.
The conventional wisdom is that that all the masculine stuff these late-onset ex-men did before announcing they were a woman was a psy-op, a one man (or to be precise woman pretending to be a man) conspiracy that successfully fools the world.
Of course, then they keep on doing masculine stuff afterwards like being ruthlessly aggressive.
I don't much believe in psy-ops that fool everybody. I especially don't believe them in the cultural sphere on national television. Over the years, millions of people watched Will Ferrell on Saturday Night Live. Did anybody of them notice that Will's writer Andrew Steele brought a female point of view to Will's sketches? Did Will?
A lot of intelligent, perceptive people waste a lot of of time writing intelligently and perceptively about things like Saturday Night Live or the books of James-Jan Morris. Where's the evidence that any of them noticed ahead of time?
Compare it to the analogous question of which performers or writers are gay even when they want to stay in the closet. A lot of critics come up with pretty accurate perceptions ahead of an announcement.
But with late onset MtoF's, we are supposed to believe that in this one category, their brilliant psy-ops fooled the world.
"Of course, then they keep on doing masculine stuff afterwards like being ruthlessly aggressive." That's convincing. I mean once you are out why would you continue to put on the act. I agree that people in their personal lives and who worked with them should probably not have been surprised when they turned out trans, just as they would not have if they turned out gay. I didn't see the documentary. Was Will Farrel taken by surprise? If so, I'd agree he seems like the late onset type you are talking about.
As far as it being obvious in his comedy sketch were it true- I dunno. I'm not sure I could say what would have been a trans tell in an SNL sketch. Maybe making Will dress up in drag? Do you think you can reliably tell girl comedy from boy comedy (aside from one be much funnier on average)?
Will Ferrell was one of the handful of highest earning comics in America from, say, 2000 to 2010. Perhaps he was the highest earning comedian/comic actor. I go hiking past a driveway that I've been told leads up to Will's estate. I don't know if it really is, but it's one of the best pieces of property in the Hollywood Hills. My view is that if it is, Will Ferrell deserves it. He's brought a gigantic amount of laughter into the world.
Thus, Will was for years an obsessive center of attention for countless other extraordinarily perceptive comic talents. The 1000th highest paid funny guy in America is usually extremely insightful about the 1st highest paid funny guy.
Did any of them ever point out that one of Will's top writers was clearly a woman on the inside?
No, none of them did.
Why not?
Occam's Razor says: Because Andrew Steele wasn't really a woman.
I get your toy example below. I'm trying to think, what would the tells be for an adult? If your assumption is the 1000th funniest guy should have sussed it out, I figure that's analogous to me sussing out a guy at work. If you were a woman on the inside, but had an average male load of testosterone, and male vocal chords, bones, and musculature...what would it be? Lack of interest in male hobbies? Obsession with the royal family? Gossipyness? Gay voice? I don't think of gay voice as womanly; it's its own thing. I understand and agree with your examples of hard charging CEOs who learn to land fighter jets on aircraft carriers in their spare time. But what if you present as an averagely masculine guy?
Upthread, Erik wrote, "So I infer this [person I knew in the 1980s at MIT] was a sincere case. I guess there is a chance she was just a super dedicated autogynophiliac, but I tend towards sincerity."
Contra Erik, pre-WWT autogynephilia strikes me as entirely sincere -- who would choose to suffer the social penalties, as opposed to being driven to do so? In the Current Year, this seems to continue to hold for most high-accomplishment, high-IQ, high-aggression men who turn into transwomen in midlife.
As NYT Magazine reporter David Marchese illustrates and celebrates, the costs are now lower and the benefits higher. This obviously changes the "do I stay or do I go" analysis for "Sinceres" like Andrew/Harper Steele, and obviously, too, opens new opportunities for boys and men of more prosaic passions (winning medals, romancing lesbians, etc.).
I await the applications of Mr. Marchese's Journalism skill set to the findings of the Cass Report, the WPATH Standards-of-Care scandals, and the anguished accounts of teen and young-adult de-transitioners (1).
The New York Times could commission a poll: "If elite trendsetters and influencers at prestige media organizations start a campaign to valorize xenomelia (2), will the incidence of non-medical limb amputations __Increase, __Decrease, or __Stay the same?"
Ground Zero for Luxury Beliefs (3): the editorial suites overlooking Times Square.
.
(1) Evolutionary biologist Colin Wright PhD has posted de-transitioners' accounts at his Substack, "Reality's Last Stand" -- https://substack.com/@colinwright
(2) 2014 review of xenomelia -- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4094630/
(3) As formulated by psychologist Rob Henderson -- https://www.robkhenderson.com/p/status-symbols-and-the-struggle-for
Steve, if you read the autobiographies of the autogynephilic types, one would learn that they were into cross dressing and other aspects of being trans in private for years before coming out in public. One can argue that it is part of the sexual fetish but being autogynephilic is not a switch that is just flipped late in life.
But were they into playing with girls' toys and other non-sexual female behavior before puberty?
I knew an effeminate little boy who was really into girls' toys from age 3 onward. When little girls would ask him about it, he'd say, "I'm really into girls toys, that's just the way I am." A quarter of a century later he was into being a drag queen.
He never felt the urge to win the men's Decathlon Gold Medal.
I believe that effeminate little boys have a higher preponderance of being homosexual later in life as you (Steve) have discussed before in the differences between gay and lesbians.
I think he's drawing the distinction between being autogyephilic and being true transgender. They both would start early but the only behavior the autogynophile would exhibit would be dressing up as a girl.
I suspect the gay ones are powerfully attracted to straight men, and becoming a woman is the only way to attract them. See the fantasy of the Crying Game and M. Butterfly. It's their misfortune that the men who accept them aren't exactly straight.
twenty years ago if a straight man said he didn't want to get Crying Gamed, the other side would make fun of him-'nobody wants to trick you! get over yourself! such behavior is against the tranny code of ethics!'
Twenty years later- 'how dare you even object to a trans woman not revealing her status before sexual intercourse? There is no difference! It's all just women!'
Across the media (legacy and social), much of what used to be considered "private" is now fair game. But in a contrary trend, certain uncomfortable facets of the male-to-female transgender life are now treated with the same prudery that caused Victorians to hide the legs of their tables under drapery.
Namely, "Your account of your post-coming-out dating life is fascinating! So tell me, as feminine as you now are, did you decide to keep the male plumbing you were born with, or go for the upgrade?"
It might make a difference, for some.
I’m familiar with Blanchard’s typology but I sometimes think it might be _too_ binary.
There are probably cases where it doesn’t fit.
Mental illness. There is no such thing as a metaphysical female mind being deposited by mistake into a male body. Other than dress like their moms did when she was in her 40s, there is not a single feminine attribute about these men.
I agree that a lot of it is mental illness but why are you sure that a male body couldn't get female brain wiring. Seems to me you either accept the blank slate idea, in which case society could make any person with any complement of sex chromosomes into any gender, or you think it's in born, that people are wired that way. If it's inborn wiring, how could you know it's impossible to get the wrong wiring unless you know how they wiring process is linked to the sex chromosomes...which we do not?
That's low-hanging fruit for a team of PhD neurologists: scan a bunch of women's brains, scan a bunch of male trannies' brains. And just like that, you've proved female brains can end up in male bodies, validating the entire establishment Narrative on this issue and revealing the behavior of 60 yr old men dressing like their moms and aunts did 30 yrs ago is due to innate female brain wiring.
Nothing about the transgender MtF hypothesis makes any sense, other than turbo-charged narcissism, which is probably what the brain scans would show. None of these men suddenly become beta personalities, go into caregiver professions, acquire a big henhouse of female friends, etc. Same on the FtM side: none of these women start hanging out with men, smoking cigars, take up woodworking, develop alpha personalities, etc.
The brain studies you describe have been done. The results are not clear cut -- both male and female humans exhibit diversity -- but I know of no evidence in support of a "born into the wrong body" narrative. See evolutionary biologist Colin Wright's Substack "Reality's Last Stand" for writeups.
In decades past, some relatively constant and quite tiny fraction of men would find greater happiness by living as women, and vice versa. See Buck Angel as a contemporary instance of the latter.
In the first decade of the 2000s, those tiny fractions grew tenfold, and then perhaps another tenfold to the present day. I note the wave of "regret" lawsuits that is now starting to gain momentum. It is one more indication that wholesale sterilization and mutilation of children and young adults was not the correct way to ensure that those suffering from these very rare syndromes would be treated.
Alas there are no such scans, or rather current knowledge and brain scans do not resolve the question (as AMac78 Notes). It's kind of like how we all assumed with the human genome sequenced we would find the genes that cause heart attacks. Turns out complex systems are complex and have what are called 'emergent properties' our little pea-brains aren't good enough to disentangle it all yet.
While I agree that a lot of the current transgenders are not genuine in the sense you mean, I have see some pretty convincing transgender women on YouTube. Maybe it is psychopathology rather than what they claim but I don't see how to figure that out. I'm not prepared to accept the assertion that it's BS solely on the grounds that you and I can't grok it
What is a "genuine" transgender, and what is the criteria for genuineness?
genuine transgender would be sex opposite of gender as opposed to a person who is male gender but turned on by the thought of looking like a woman or being perceived as a woman or seeing himself as a woman
There are effeminate men but this guy didn’t seem to be one.
Hannibal explains it all in 1991's "Silence of the Lambs," which I'm sure Steele saw, thought about, and maybe even spoofed on SNL. If you've ever run across one of these guys "in real life," they have an aggressive energy to them that cleaves mania/shame with (almost) every startling word that exits their mouths. Unnerving to be around them. It's blindingly obvious that catering to their whims is societally suicidal. But, at the moment, here we are.
Ricky G. got it right:
https://youtu.be/dHhcDImScko?si=k5nsP84XonCueSBt
I find it remarkable how little curiosity the general public shows over the trans issue.
Progressives support “trans rights” but don’t even appear to notice that different things are motivating the Thai homosexual ladyboy, the middle-aged macho American white man who claims he’s a woman, and teenage girls who want to cut their breasts off and retreat from the world.
Just another example of the leftist impulse to lump rather than split (e.g., see their practice of talking merely about “immigrants”, while acting as if there’s no difference between Swiss bankers and Somali goatherds).
That's a good question: who is more inclined to lump rather than split: left or right?
Keep in mind that while splitters tend to more intelligent, a few lumpers tend to be the really brilliant, such as Joseph Greenberg's lumping of hundreds of New World Indian languages into just a few.
All part of "Othering," if we're analyzing the phenom correctly, e.g. Do all Georgia rednecks "lump" Yankee academics, journalists, and bankers together incorrectly? (A: No/Yes. They all attended an Ivy together, but were in diff eating clubs. Very tricky distinctions! Reunions are subtle experiences.) Do those lockstep lib Yankees "split" GA rednecks from their black redneck neighbors in Savannah incorrectly? (A: Yes/No. The black church ladies and white rednecks all attend Sunday services - Baptists, but diff churches in town - all want Sav cops to patrol their streets to control teen black youths [often gr-grandkids of ch ladies], but...vote blue vs red in most elections.) Insert shrugging emoji here, of course. 🤷♂️
I would think the readers of NYT were progressive. But there are several comments complaining about trans “women:” they’re invading women’s spaces. I’ve noticed a strong feminist trend in their readers and some see it as just men horning their way in (I agree),
It would be a lot to expect that people whose principal way of interacting with the world involves hysteria, should utterly pass up a golden opportunity for hysteria, even if it was manufactured by their side and renders their worldview an absolute muddle.
So is this why SNL hasn't been funny in a very long time?
I haven't watched SNL for decades. It had long ceased to be funny enough to stay up for although I understand that true fans of the show were up anyway and desperate for ANY entertainment. But that pre-dates any of this so I don't have much to say.
"Sacha Baron Cohen is kicking himself right now for not doing a road trip movie about how transphobic Americans are to a 6’3” guy in a dress."
Outstanding!
>"
Season 30-Season 31 eps. 1-10: Tina Fey and Andrew Steele
Season 31 eps. 11-19: Tina Fey, Andrew Steele, and Seth Meyers
Seasons 32-33: Andrew Steele, Seth Meyers, and Paula Pell
"
Tina Fey turned out to be funny once she got her own show, but the other three never did anything funny that I've heard about. By "coincidence" 2/3 of them have some kind paraphiliac disorder.
Girls5eva (Paula Pell) had some really great lines - and I never even saw 30Rock which it’s said to resemble.
And as for Seth Meyers, certain of the “Documentary Now” episodes are practically an excuse for why everything that came before, culturally, had to happen just as it did.
That said, I think it is for a niche audience, I never see it mentioned and efforts to mention have been unsuccessful. That said, the people in my orbit aren’t the sharpest tools and would find “Documentary Now” a tricky google search.
Okay, those sounded like plausibly funny concepts, so I watched the trailers and some episode highlights of "Girls5eva" and “Documentary Now”, l and . . .
I still haven't heard anything funny from those guys.
That doesn't surprise me at all! You have to have an affinity for a pretty narrow or aslant slice of pop culture, to like "Documentary Now". I'm actually surprised it got as much attention as it did. "Juan Loves Chicken and Rice" only works if you've seen "Jiro Dreams of Sushi" - and yet to find it funny you almost have to be the sort of person who would never get all the way through "Jiro Dreams of Sushi". At least, that was me.
I hope you find something you like. I don't have much access so am not a good recommender - the only reason I had Netflix for a month was for the new season of Cobra Kai - but I realized I hadn't laughed at a TV show in years. And I was almost too old for Girls5eva, but not quite.
I don't see another M*A*S*H (funny for anyone) coming along any time soon.
The girl in Girls5eva, whose name I have forgotten, Stanberry or Newberry, is almost unrecognizable but terrific in "Co-op: Cast Album" (which again, works if you have an affection for the 70s, or if you in passing on PBS saw some of the "Company" cast album documentary, or if you're a theater kid - two of three for me - and probably not otherwise?).
Yeah, I could kinda see the DN guys had some reference in mind and were going about parodying it in some kind of exquisitely sophisticated way, but c'mon, not everyone is a niche culture maven, and at some point ya just wanna hava laugh.
Fred Armisen and Carrie Brownstein, who're in DN, did some pretty funny satire of Portland, which I appreciated even though I've never been to Portland. They got to what's funny underneath so I could get the joke even without knowing Portland. So it is possible to make something funny without asking the audience to look up the source material and do homework.
Similarly, Monty Python was both funny and sophisticated, and yet could also be appreciated by those outside England who didn't know all the niche English references.
I haven’t seen “Nanook of the North” (though was not wholly ignorant of it), and found the takeoff pretty funny. The Grey Gardens one is terrific. I’d suggest if you’re not familiar with Grey Gardens, then no, this genre is not for you.
I kind of loved OG Grey Gardens though. I’m a little Grey Gardens myself.
The real reason people cater to trans gaslighting is that they're afraid of them. For good reason I might add.
An NYT reader comment with 100 upvotes:
“The clips I have seen are very offensive to women and girls. Humans cannot change sex. Being a woman is not a feeling or an identity. Sex is real, material and fundamental to our rights as women.
“Men in dresses are men in dresses. A dress does not make a man a woman. You know this.”
I hope a dress doesn't make a woman, because I haven't worn one in years.
I bought a secondhand tee-shirt dress online, from Poshmark, thinking that it would feel cool on hot days, and that maybe I don't necessarily have to dress like a toddler all summer, even if I am always going to wear jeans all winter.
It arrived and I thought it made me look like Hazel from TV for some reason. It had a maid uniform quality. (Once I get an idea like that in my head, it can never be dislodged.) So I cut the top off and sewed down a waistband, set in elastic, and am now dipping my toe into wearing skirts again.
Real women alter their clothes; I hope she knows that.