Centerfielders Willie Mays, who died yesterday at 93, and Mickey Mantle, who died in 1995 at 63, both entered major league baseball in 1951 in New York City, Mays for the National League Giants and Mantle for the American League Yankees.
Yeah those aren't steroid bods. I bet all that golf helped keep Mays in shape during the off season. Here's a question. My grandfather, who was one of those kids in the rightfield bleachers watching Babe Ruth, said his homers tended to be long, deep flies. My father said Mantle's homers tended to be line shots, with the exception of the ball that hit the top of the RF foul pole. What were Mays' homeruns like?
This is something I've noticed following Mike Trout over the years: he hits line drive after line drive after line drive. Some catch enough air to be home runs, but often they don't; this means Trout seems to line out to the outfield -- especially to center field -- very frequently.
No question that Mays had better numbers than Mantle. However, had Mantle had good health, he would be in the discussion of the greatest ever. (His first major injury was in the World Series in his rookie year.) His combination of speed and power was incredible.
In the first edition of the Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract, he ranks players at each position by Peak Value and Career Value. For center fielders, the Peak Value ranking is: 1. Mickey Mantle; 2. Ty Cobb; 3. Willie Mays; 4. Joe DiMaggio; 5. Tris Speaker. Career Value: 1. Cobb; 2. DiMaggio; 3. Mays; 4. Speaker; 5. Mantle. In his discussion of Mantle, James says, "Mickey Mantle was, at his peak in 1956-57 and again in 1961-62, a greater player than Willie Mays - and it is not a close or difficult decision.... [E]ven if mays is given every conceivable break on every unkonwn - defense, base running, clutch hitting - his performance still would not match Mantle's." The second edition of the Abstract maintained this contention, though less definitively. And, in both, James made clear that Mays was decidedly better than Mantle when looking at their entire bodies of work. https://sabr.org/journal/article/mantle-vs-mays/
Mays had an amazing run from age 30 to 34 (1961-1965), averaging over 45 homers per season for 5 straight years, some of it due to expansion dilution of talent from 1962. But the expanded strikezone in 1963 introduced the Pitcher's Era, but didn't phaze Mays.
Yeah those aren't steroid bods. I bet all that golf helped keep Mays in shape during the off season. Here's a question. My grandfather, who was one of those kids in the rightfield bleachers watching Babe Ruth, said his homers tended to be long, deep flies. My father said Mantle's homers tended to be line shots, with the exception of the ball that hit the top of the RF foul pole. What were Mays' homeruns like?
This is something I've noticed following Mike Trout over the years: he hits line drive after line drive after line drive. Some catch enough air to be home runs, but often they don't; this means Trout seems to line out to the outfield -- especially to center field -- very frequently.
No question that Mays had better numbers than Mantle. However, had Mantle had good health, he would be in the discussion of the greatest ever. (His first major injury was in the World Series in his rookie year.) His combination of speed and power was incredible.
In the first edition of the Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract, he ranks players at each position by Peak Value and Career Value. For center fielders, the Peak Value ranking is: 1. Mickey Mantle; 2. Ty Cobb; 3. Willie Mays; 4. Joe DiMaggio; 5. Tris Speaker. Career Value: 1. Cobb; 2. DiMaggio; 3. Mays; 4. Speaker; 5. Mantle. In his discussion of Mantle, James says, "Mickey Mantle was, at his peak in 1956-57 and again in 1961-62, a greater player than Willie Mays - and it is not a close or difficult decision.... [E]ven if mays is given every conceivable break on every unkonwn - defense, base running, clutch hitting - his performance still would not match Mantle's." The second edition of the Abstract maintained this contention, though less definitively. And, in both, James made clear that Mays was decidedly better than Mantle when looking at their entire bodies of work. https://sabr.org/journal/article/mantle-vs-mays/
Mays had an amazing run from age 30 to 34 (1961-1965), averaging over 45 homers per season for 5 straight years, some of it due to expansion dilution of talent from 1962. But the expanded strikezone in 1963 introduced the Pitcher's Era, but didn't phaze Mays.
Being a Bay Area kid in the 50’s & 60’s, there’s no question in my mind.