Surely the IQs in their home countries are depressed by the environment. Can we figure out how much? One good proxy would be to look at the IQs of their kids. What is the average IQ of their kids? If you assume the third-world environment decreases everyones' IQs the same amount (which might be a questionable assumption), you should be able to figure out how much of this lower IQ of their home country is environmental, since we know what regression to the mean would look like if it was x% environmental and (100-x)% genetic.
The OECD's big budget PISA test reports the school achievement test performance at age 15 of natives, first generation immigrants, and second generation immigrants.
Yeah that's reasonable to guess, that the environmental influence is about as big as the regression to the mean effect. So you have to solve a linear equation I guess.
The received wisdom in the West is immigration is fundamentally good and the immigrants themselves are mostly plucky strivers that the host society is lucky to have. Let's say that's so - and in the data above it appears they are a cut above the average in their native countries.
But at the end of the day, if these really all the best their native lands have to offer and they are still 10 IQ points below the median in their host country, that's not really upside or value add at all. And this fact is what our leadership class is desperate to hide from the public to the greatest extent possible, since once a person groks this reality, the follow up question is "how is this good for the natives?" arises and the answer is it's not...and that leads to even more difficult questions.
The Russian, Ukrainian, and (surprisingly) Jordanian migrants are all above the average IQ of their home country AND above the average IQ of Germany. So on a purely selfish IQ analysis (and assuming these very small samples are representative) those three countries are helping Germany, though presumably also at equal cost to their home countries. So a gain to host, a loss to home.
Russian home IQ is almost as high as Germany, so additional Russians are the most desirable of these migrants, based on IQ. Ukrainian home IQ is most of an SD below Germany, so Ukrainians are not a good bet for additional migration to Germany. Jordanian home IQ more than a SD below Germany, so additional Jordanians are undesirable as migrants, though Germany was somehow very lucky with its existing sample.
The other migrants are all dragging down Germany on the same analysis. They are mostly also depriving their home countries of above average human capital, so from both the host and the home point of view their migration is a net loss.
The big exception is (perhaps surprisingly) Poland, whose migrants are almost half an SD below the average native Pole. By coincidence it is also the only country that shares a border with Germany and is in the EU, and so they only migrants who actually have a potentially legitimate claim to be in Germany. (Perhaps like Mexico sharing a border with the US, Poland is not sending their best to Germany, as a certain observer observed of Mexican migrants to the US.) So Polish migrants drag down Germany but buoy up Poland's average IQ by their departure. Kazakhstan is a much milder version of Poland, with the migrant sample just slightly below their home.
P.S. Besides Syria (223) and Eritrea (39), all the sample sizes are quite small.
Could be. But the standard deviation is only 8, which is nearly the lowest among all sampled groups, which implies these Russian migrants were relatively tightly clustered. So it doesn't look like it was, say, half 110 IQ Ashk + half 90 IQ Uralsky.
I also wondered if they might be Volga Germans, but I think those would have been admitted as "German" rather than "Russian". Of course, they could have been Volga Germans who had to destroy their ID papers to survive the War so they had to apply as "Russian".
OTOH, there's nothing terribly implausible about Russian immigrants to Germany having 100 IQ. There are plenty of 100 IQ Russians.
This is only a sample size of 7, so whaddaya whaddaya...
Polish migration to Germany is irrelevant. With one difference, Germany is to Poland as Britain is to Ireland: marginally richer, part of a common travel zone and two hours from home. The difference is the language barrier. High verbal IQ people, the teachers and lawyers, are better off where they are and outright dimwits can only function in Polish. It is the bus drivers and bricklayers who go for a few years, take a look around and decide whether to stay or leave.
Yes, I am sure the overall percentage is still small now, but in certain cities more than half the school-age children are immigrants or the children of immigrants.
And that tells us what the future will look like in much of Germany.
One of Steve's Laws -- "Import the third world, become the third world."
Sample sizes of 6 and 7 individuals? This is so small as to be beyond the point of usability; I am even surprised they published it though am sure they caveated it heavily. In other words, the implicit error-bars are too wide to make these numbers mean much.
It seems that 90 is the kindest score (with the eastern Europeans pulling a lot of the weight) they can give and that still means that 25% are going to be borderline or mentally defective. With reference to the "worlds most important graph" and the corresponding sub-Saharan 77 we get 50% falling into the borderline/defective/retarded/deficient categories suggesting this is as good as it gets and if current trends continue it will only get worse.
What possible positive contribution can these economic migrants make to a modern western economy. 10% of actual Germans (like all peoples) are only capable of filling such jobs as already require subsidies.
Prostitutes, drug dealers, henchmen, robbers and thieves are the only careers I see available that will improve the immigrant incomes beyond the level of being State beneficiaries. So at best, heritage Germans will be worse off economically for each migrant through just providing them with minimum German norms (which they are inherently unable on average to provide for themselves). At worst, are the additional joys of criminality and social dysfunction they bring (envy and hatred based violence) to say nothing of the State mandated DIE measures that will be required for now and evermore to address this irreducible issue.
And still this in no way diminishes the worth of these people individually or as a group. It is not their fault (in fact the study suggests they might be of the best). Yet neither is it the fault of the Germans (or by extension, us). What possible duty can exist that requires a people to immiserate itself for an unending foreign horde that is incapable of supporting itself in the manner that the natives accomplished but which they covet.
Do people really not understand, or is that what makes it controversial
Indirectly, we can tell that the standard in that study is based on normal Germans (IQ = 100). If the standard were normal Syrians, the refugees would have higher IQ's.
Although the IQ data presented here is interesting and supports useful conclusions, this relates to one of my pet peeves -- that IQ is a measure against a standard that is not a standard of actual competence. Thus, if IQ of 100 represents the arithmetic mean of a population that cannot read, write, and speak at the level of my tenth-grade English text (from the 1960's) and that has difficulty reading that text, then "100" is not literate enough to do white collar work in a call center.
In turn, this relates to the rule of thumb about needed a certain percentage of a population with IQ over 106. The economy needs a certain percentage of the population competent with math at the 8th grade level and literacy at the 10th grade level (in the host country's language).
Surely the IQs in their home countries are depressed by the environment. Can we figure out how much? One good proxy would be to look at the IQs of their kids. What is the average IQ of their kids? If you assume the third-world environment decreases everyones' IQs the same amount (which might be a questionable assumption), you should be able to figure out how much of this lower IQ of their home country is environmental, since we know what regression to the mean would look like if it was x% environmental and (100-x)% genetic.
The OECD's big budget PISA test reports the school achievement test performance at age 15 of natives, first generation immigrants, and second generation immigrants.
The results are fairly similar.
Yeah that's reasonable to guess, that the environmental influence is about as big as the regression to the mean effect. So you have to solve a linear equation I guess.
So emigration causes a brain drain on the native country ?
It’s unclear to me. I don’t trust the Lynn data.
The received wisdom in the West is immigration is fundamentally good and the immigrants themselves are mostly plucky strivers that the host society is lucky to have. Let's say that's so - and in the data above it appears they are a cut above the average in their native countries.
But at the end of the day, if these really all the best their native lands have to offer and they are still 10 IQ points below the median in their host country, that's not really upside or value add at all. And this fact is what our leadership class is desperate to hide from the public to the greatest extent possible, since once a person groks this reality, the follow up question is "how is this good for the natives?" arises and the answer is it's not...and that leads to even more difficult questions.
The Russian, Ukrainian, and (surprisingly) Jordanian migrants are all above the average IQ of their home country AND above the average IQ of Germany. So on a purely selfish IQ analysis (and assuming these very small samples are representative) those three countries are helping Germany, though presumably also at equal cost to their home countries. So a gain to host, a loss to home.
Russian home IQ is almost as high as Germany, so additional Russians are the most desirable of these migrants, based on IQ. Ukrainian home IQ is most of an SD below Germany, so Ukrainians are not a good bet for additional migration to Germany. Jordanian home IQ more than a SD below Germany, so additional Jordanians are undesirable as migrants, though Germany was somehow very lucky with its existing sample.
The other migrants are all dragging down Germany on the same analysis. They are mostly also depriving their home countries of above average human capital, so from both the host and the home point of view their migration is a net loss.
The big exception is (perhaps surprisingly) Poland, whose migrants are almost half an SD below the average native Pole. By coincidence it is also the only country that shares a border with Germany and is in the EU, and so they only migrants who actually have a potentially legitimate claim to be in Germany. (Perhaps like Mexico sharing a border with the US, Poland is not sending their best to Germany, as a certain observer observed of Mexican migrants to the US.) So Polish migrants drag down Germany but buoy up Poland's average IQ by their departure. Kazakhstan is a much milder version of Poland, with the migrant sample just slightly below their home.
P.S. Besides Syria (223) and Eritrea (39), all the sample sizes are quite small.
You do wonder if the Russian numbers are bumped up a little by the migrants with certain ...ah... guilt-based claims in Germany, let's say.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Germany
Could be. But the standard deviation is only 8, which is nearly the lowest among all sampled groups, which implies these Russian migrants were relatively tightly clustered. So it doesn't look like it was, say, half 110 IQ Ashk + half 90 IQ Uralsky.
I also wondered if they might be Volga Germans, but I think those would have been admitted as "German" rather than "Russian". Of course, they could have been Volga Germans who had to destroy their ID papers to survive the War so they had to apply as "Russian".
OTOH, there's nothing terribly implausible about Russian immigrants to Germany having 100 IQ. There are plenty of 100 IQ Russians.
This is only a sample size of 7, so whaddaya whaddaya...
Eh, you're right.
With an n of 7 I'm going to stop making conjectures. That's nothing but noise.
My guess is a computer programmer in Poland can work remotely. A plumber needs to move where the pipes are
Despite their IQ, Russian criminal and con-man behaviors would not make them the most desirable migrants!
That's why I said, "based on IQ".
But it's not like the other groups have been covering themselves in glory, so on a relative scale, Russians may still do well.
Of course, the bottom line is that densely-packed Germany doesn't need any immigrants at all, but for some reason that's unsayable.
Polish migration to Germany is irrelevant. With one difference, Germany is to Poland as Britain is to Ireland: marginally richer, part of a common travel zone and two hours from home. The difference is the language barrier. High verbal IQ people, the teachers and lawyers, are better off where they are and outright dimwits can only function in Polish. It is the bus drivers and bricklayers who go for a few years, take a look around and decide whether to stay or leave.
I recently saw a map showing the percentage of Muslim students at schools in Germany's biggest cities.
It was very impressive, but I can't recall where I saw it.
IIRC, it was over 60% in some cities.
The country as a whole is only 4.6% Islam. But half the population is classified as “no religion.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Germany
Yes, I am sure the overall percentage is still small now, but in certain cities more than half the school-age children are immigrants or the children of immigrants.
And that tells us what the future will look like in much of Germany.
One of Steve's Laws -- "Import the third world, become the third world."
I think koa means "ethnic Muslim" (parents or grandparents of Muslim-country origin).
I can't find the map/chart I saw.
I thought it was at Zerohedge, but apparently not....
This wasn't it, and is not as alarming. But still....
"Overall, an astounding 38 percent of all children in elementary schools in Germany have migrant backgrounds."
"25 percent of 4th graders cannot read in Germany."
Etc.
https://rmx.news/article/german-school-system-overwhelmed-by-migrants-warns-president-of-german-teachers-association/
https://rmx.news/germany/germany-new-data-shows-dramatic-demographic-changes-in-school-age-children-majority-of-students-in-hamburg-have-migration-background/
https://rmx.news/article/record-low-25-of-german-4th-graders-cant-read-properly-growing-diversity-a-major-factor/
Sample sizes of 6 and 7 individuals? This is so small as to be beyond the point of usability; I am even surprised they published it though am sure they caveated it heavily. In other words, the implicit error-bars are too wide to make these numbers mean much.
It seems that 90 is the kindest score (with the eastern Europeans pulling a lot of the weight) they can give and that still means that 25% are going to be borderline or mentally defective. With reference to the "worlds most important graph" and the corresponding sub-Saharan 77 we get 50% falling into the borderline/defective/retarded/deficient categories suggesting this is as good as it gets and if current trends continue it will only get worse.
What possible positive contribution can these economic migrants make to a modern western economy. 10% of actual Germans (like all peoples) are only capable of filling such jobs as already require subsidies.
Prostitutes, drug dealers, henchmen, robbers and thieves are the only careers I see available that will improve the immigrant incomes beyond the level of being State beneficiaries. So at best, heritage Germans will be worse off economically for each migrant through just providing them with minimum German norms (which they are inherently unable on average to provide for themselves). At worst, are the additional joys of criminality and social dysfunction they bring (envy and hatred based violence) to say nothing of the State mandated DIE measures that will be required for now and evermore to address this irreducible issue.
And still this in no way diminishes the worth of these people individually or as a group. It is not their fault (in fact the study suggests they might be of the best). Yet neither is it the fault of the Germans (or by extension, us). What possible duty can exist that requires a people to immiserate itself for an unending foreign horde that is incapable of supporting itself in the manner that the natives accomplished but which they covet.
Do people really not understand, or is that what makes it controversial
hehe- henchman is a good entry level job
Indirectly, we can tell that the standard in that study is based on normal Germans (IQ = 100). If the standard were normal Syrians, the refugees would have higher IQ's.
Although the IQ data presented here is interesting and supports useful conclusions, this relates to one of my pet peeves -- that IQ is a measure against a standard that is not a standard of actual competence. Thus, if IQ of 100 represents the arithmetic mean of a population that cannot read, write, and speak at the level of my tenth-grade English text (from the 1960's) and that has difficulty reading that text, then "100" is not literate enough to do white collar work in a call center.
In turn, this relates to the rule of thumb about needed a certain percentage of a population with IQ over 106. The economy needs a certain percentage of the population competent with math at the 8th grade level and literacy at the 10th grade level (in the host country's language).