38 Comments

I've wondered this for some time - especially in college admissions. I wonder if the Ivies are fine with as little as 2%? Probably are!

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What makes anyone believe that any highly selective university is doing or has ever done a real genetic/genealogical analysis of their applicants. As has been mentioned many times by Steve, when checking off the race/ethnicity box, the applicant is on their own honor.

There was an editorial on the Washington Post years ago titled "Not Affirmative, Sir" that pointed out that many applicants from elite private college prep schools were claiming to be Hispanic when applying to the Naval Academy. There is no way for any university to check. Compare that to getting admitted to Kamehameha School in Honolulu where one has to document one's ancestry to ensure that at least one relative was living in Hawaii pre-Captain Cook.

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"at least one Native Hawaiian relative"?

Would that mean 1/512th would be okay?

"511/512th White, with no ties to Hawaii since that 1/512th ancestor -- Welcome!"

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George Clooney played a rich guy in Hawaii who is 1/32nd Hawaiian royalty and his family owns 10% of a major island.

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Thanks for confirming what I had intuited: she’s a quadroon.

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That term applies (or applied historically) to 75%-European, 25%-Subsaharan people.

In racial-anthropological terms, Kamala's mother has substantial Australoid ancestry, via Hindu-India, elite-high-caste origin of the mother notwithstanding. Phenotypically, the Australoid substrate will often reinforce the Subsaharan. On the other hand, you have substantial Caucasoid via both mother and apparently via the Jamaican father (a "light-skinned Black").

Kamala is really something more like Tiger Woods Ethnicity.

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Hmm...probably her father is, which makes her an octoroon at best.

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We already have two models in the U.S. to see what happens when identity is given a government office: Hawaiian Affairs in Hawaii and membership of American Indian tribes. Of course, those organization require a full genealogical review before one can claim membership.

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<<<most of the hatred he elicits is because, in his ham-handed way, he’s often onto something>>>

That is my sense as well. Why was it so necessary to brand Trump as a liar? Because the real problem is that he so often speaks the unwelcome truth. Most politicians tell more lies than Trump, but their lies are in support of the approved narrative, while Trump's are not. The media didn't object when Biden told the Morehouse graduating class that as blacks they "have to be 10 times better than anyone else to get a fair shot." That was an obvious, divisive, and harmful lie, but an approved one, so Biden got a pass.

Vox compiled a list of honest observations Trump has made that Vox considers racist:

--1993: In congressional testimony, Trump said that some Native American reservations operating casinos shouldn’t be allowed because “they don’t look like Indians to me.”

--When asked at a 2016 Republican debate whether all 1.6 billion Muslims hate the US, Trump said, “I mean a lot of them. I mean a lot of them.”

--In a pitch to Black voters in 2016, Trump said, “You’re living in poverty, your schools are no good, you have no jobs, 58 percent of your youth is unemployed. What the hell do you have to lose?”

--Trump has repeatedly referred to Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) as “Pocahontas.”

--Speaking about immigration in a bipartisan meeting in January 2018, Trump reportedly asked, in reference to Haiti and African countries, “Why are we having all these people from shithole countries come here?” He then reportedly suggested that the US should take more people from countries like Norway.

--Trump has called the SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus the “Chinese virus” and “kung flu.” The World Health Organization advises against linking a virus to any particular region, since it can lead to stigma.

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But as the joke goes, does anyone think that Trump could find Norway or Haiti or Nigeria on an map (labeled or unlabeled)?

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"My theory after forty years of observing Trump is that he’s neither a racist nor a genius. Instead, he’s an extremely self-confident egomaniac with a decent nose for sniffing out when something doesn’t quite smell right about the current orthodoxy. While he lacks the command of facts and the precision of thought to articulate what he’s sensed, most of the hatred he elicits is because, in his ham-handed way, he’s often onto something."

That is probably the most accurate summation of Trump that I've ever read.

My theory as to why he elicits such extreme hate from college-educated elites is that while he is in the "elite" class by income and net worth, he also seems to be the sort of guy who puts ketchup on his steak. He was tolerated as long as he stayed in his lane (tacky and intermittently amusing celebrity) but when he ventured into politics he crossed a line that People Who Put Ketchup On Steak absolutely must not cross. I think this is why he is the object of such fanatical devotion by some of his supporters as well - "he's a regular guy just like us! Yeah, he's got a gold plated toilet, but he probably puts ketchup on his steak!"

Now, a rich ketchup-on-steak guy who also spouted the Currently Fashionable Opinions would be OK; he'd be lauded as a man of the people. But a rich ketchup-on-steak guy who says unfashionable things is an anathema.

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She doesn’t look black to me, although I admit I’ve not had much experience with blacks. The few I’ve seen were from Africa.

I realize she does have black ancestry but she LOOKS more Indian.

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I've started using ketchup as a dip for raw broccoli, and it's surprisingly good. Dairy-based dips upset my digestion two days after opening, and I'm too lazy to steam (a little lemon juice really helps cooked broc).

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Jesse Waters on Fox likes to say he is .1 percent Black and he upped it the other day to 1% but Tyrus was on the Five that day, and he took particular objection to that exaggeration so perhaps that is the new limit?Not one drop .1% but 100 drops?

But if Tyrus is the product of a White mother and a black father, would't he be not all Black, so less than a full black? around 45% if his Dad is African-american and comes in at 80% Black then  Tyrus would be less a black man than other black men.?

Not a real Black man.

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Tyrus looks even less than the 35-45% Black that his story about his parents' origins suggests. Phenotype is a wide-band around genotype in cases of divergent mixes, of course. But a straight-on guess would put Tyrus at between "quadroon" and "octoroon" levels.

Tyrus' phenotype resembles some stable-blends seen in parts of Latin America with substantial Subsaharan-DNA that dissolved into the wider European- or European-Amerind population base around it.

The question: "Is Tyrus 'Black'?" is a sociological-cultural one. The fairest neutral answer is that he is not Black, and that another category should exist or be created for him, such as exists in South Africa with the Cape Coloured racial designation.

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These questions are peculiarly American and strike me as alien to a European like me. It’s not that we don’t have social class that overlaps with ethnic boundaries (we very much do) it’s just that racial classifications tend to line up with what your eyes tell you.

A good example is England soccer player Cole Palmer pictured here with his parents. Palmer is very proud of his Caribbean heritage and has had the flag of Saint Kitts and Nevis emblazoned on his boots, but to my knowledge doesn’t claim to be black.

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/2R7CNFY/istanbul-turkey-10th-june-2023-cole-palmer-of-manchester-city-and-his-parents-pose-with-the-trophy-following-the-1-0-victory-in-the-uefa-champions-league-match-at-ataturk-olympic-stadium-istanbul-picture-credit-should-read-jonathan-moscrop-sportimage-2R7CNFY.jpg

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How much of "Cole Palmer" (b.2002)'s ancestry is Subsaharan?

It looks at a glance like near-zero, but on close inspection those looking for it might find some, often hardly even clearing the hurdle of "looks octoroon."

His wiki entry suggests one grandfather was from Saint Kitts and Nevis, the Caribbean island(s). If the grandfather was himself a mulatto, this would put Cole Palmer at the "octoroon" range (1/8th). Phenotypically he looks more like a "quintroon" (1/16th).

In other words, Cole Palmer passes as full-White some/much of the time, but some/much of the time he would also strike a typical full-White NW-European as "off-White" in a vague way. This is also influenced a considerable amount by cultural accoutrements like manner of speaking (accent), clothing style, hair style (as in haircut, not color or traces of African woolly-hair). Many in the UK might mistake the "off-White" impression given off by such a specimen to be really a sign of a "Chav" (or the now-in-disuse term "whigger").

On a more general point, if he has the "flag of Saint Kitts and Nevis emblazoned on his boots," in honor of one apparently-mixed-race grandfather, isn't that something similar to what's going on with U.S. race attitudes?

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Palmer’s father looks not unlike Donald Harris.

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If Cole Palmer is really about one-quarter Subsaharan by aggregate ancestry, count it as an outlier, a highly unusual case of phenotype leaning far away from the Subsaharan side.

The other main alternative is that Cole Palmer's father's phenotype leans far more towards his Subsaharan component, making him look more 'Black' than he is.

Phenotype vs. genotype, it's a world of statistical uncertainty at times.

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I knew at work a redheaded white guy from the Cayman Islands. 100% pirate ancestry.

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Cole Palmer looks Nordic. I doubt his father passed on much sub-Saharan African DNA to him.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2024/04/19/cole-palmer-making-of-wythenshawe-fury-shameless-chelsea/

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I guess we will be setting up racial categorization boards like South Africa used to have.

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It would be a lot easier with 23andMe, but would surely be influenced also by other factors because:

(1.) most people get bored by raw data after a point (not readers of SteveSailer.net, but most others); and

(2.) some groups will lobby for special exceptions, such as the many dual-citizens with Israel now to be explicitly eligible for benefits via the new census "MENA-Semitic" category; and

(3.) some people with power to do so could influence the way 23andMe-like tests categorize results. That actually already happened around the very end of the 2010s, iirc, in which 23andMe itself smoothed over some categories after pressure-campaigns from some ethnic-lobbies. Results that had a Korean showing "15% Japanese, 3% Chinese, x-% other East Asian" and the like, which had been based on imperfect mathematical data -analysis, were converted to 100%-Korean.

If the USA gets racial-categorization "boards," there will be pressure to get people above certain thresholds to get racial-preferences. For example, would Tim Wise (a former Sailer-sparring partner) quality for the MENA-Semitic category? Tim Wise claims that one-quarter of his ancestors were Jews. He'd be crushed if he fell below the threshold and were dumped into the disprivileged "White-European-Christian bucket." Although at least he doesn't have to compete for school-entry and job-hiring processes much.

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I sometimes look at the 23andme subreddit where people share their results. The categories are both somewhat arbitrary and a function of the fact that genetic information is simply much richer for some groups than others. The category “indigenous American” has no subcategories and is very broad compared to the European and African breakdowns on 23andme. This is due to the fact that many tribes have resisted the kind of sophisticated grave robbing that Steve Reich’s lab’s work is based on.

Even with perfect information the people running the model have a lot of scope around when and where to aggregate and split categories. So while some of this will be socially mediated to some extent, other genetic differences are simply too large to fudge: eg the Atlantic pre-1492 and the western Sahara desert.

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I didn’t know there WAS a 23andme subreddit. I’ll check that out.

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More like was used in the Jim Crow South.

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Has Kamala or other immediate relations (notably, her cantankerous Jamaican father) taken a 23andMe or similar DNA-ancestry test?

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Harris would not dare to take a DNA test.

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I guess you mean "would not dare to release the results of a DNA test,"

with the reasons being: (1.) the results could show a %-Black so low that it could lose her Black votes; (2.) it could make her subject to attacks like Elizabeth Warren was, i.e., for exaggerating racial ancestry for cynical self-benefit.

When Trump attacked Kamala for "not being Black enough" (as it was relayed by the media), he was rebuked as a monster for racially attacking someone. The media was able to "run cover" for her fully, and made it into another anti-Trump mini-hysteria ("Trump attacks the Black Race, Kamala, a Black woman, says she opposes attacks on entire racial groups").

But with a DNA-test result being a percentage, it would get in the headlines. They could no longer "run cover" for her.

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Harris might lose some votes over it, but the main problem is that it would be embarrassing for the black elite. Why do you think there was such a tremendous overreaction to Trump's throwaway remark about racial identity?

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The media despises Trump and widely publicizes every slightly off remark he makes.

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Her dad looked pretty normally black back in the 1970s when he had an Afro. Now, he's bald so the initial impression is less black then back then. But his DNA, whatever it is, is still the same.

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Steve, you and Trump are indeed "on to something." There is a tremendous cultural and racial gap between the so-called black elite and the regular blacks, especially the crime-ridden underclass. The "black" (often mulatto) elites gain their power and privileges by pretending to represent "blacks" to white elites. The "black" elite proclaim the genetic equality of the races from the roof tops, but they have strong doubts about it. Therefore they see it as in their interest to assimilate as much non-black DNA as possible into their "race," against the day the feared genetic inequality can no longer be denied. When the people they want to assimilate refuse to do so, they are threatened: "The evil, racist whites will despise you for not calling yourself black" or "You have a moral obligation to call yourself black so all your achievements can be credited to the black race and thereby prove they are not inferior." Notice that the obvious sub-Saharan lineage in Latinos and Arabs is politely ignored.

Part-black whites and other non-blacks who publicly proclaim their loyalty to the "black race" are often hailed as heroes by the "black elite" (especially by the ones who are not really black). Whites as different from each other as Trump and Rachel Dolezal inadvertently become threats to the black-identified elites by exposing the idiocy and contradictions of their "one drop" definition. That is why black elites and their liberal white allies felt compelled to deluge the media with defenses of Harris and her alleged "blackness." It is hypocritical in the extreme for black elites and their allies to claim that Trump is too ignorant to know that multiracial people exist. It was the black elite (NAACP) who led the opposition to the Multiracial category for the 2000 U.S. Census, arguing in favor of a "one drop" definition of "black" and proclaiming that no one has the right to identify as more than one race.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/04/opinion/kamala-harris-biracial.html?searchResultPosition=1

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/12/22/a-lot-of-southern-whites-are-a-little-bit-black/

https://adpowellblog.com/2022/06/23/white-racial-identity-racial-mixture-and-the-one-drop-rule-2/

https://adpowellblog.com/2022/06/23/its-not-rachel-dolezal-whos-crazybut-the-ridiculous-racist-and-contradictory-definitions-of-african-american/

https://www.amazon.com/Legal-History-Color-Line-One-Drop-ebook/dp/B005EN73FS/

https://www.amazon.com/Invisible-Line-American-Families-Journey-ebook/dp/B004H4XCVE/

https://www.amazon.com/Passing-Who-You-Really-Are-ebook/dp/B005EM9LEU/

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Obama has spoken of his pride at having answered census-boxes for himself as:

"RACE: Black alone."

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Fixed it:

My theory after forty years of observing Trump is that he’s neither a racist nor a genius. Instead, he’s <> extremely self-confident <> with a decent nose for sniffing out when something doesn’t quite smell right about the current orthodoxy. <>[M]ost of the hatred he elicits is because<> he’s often onto something.

In this case, <>Trump has <>grasped is that Kamala’s coronation is exposing the inherent illogicalities of the post-1960s affirmative action era. At present, few whites like to talk about who qualifies for quotas, but it’s a fascinating subject that will only grow thornier with time.

<>Trump is raising a question that will become increasingly relevant in a mixed-race America: Despite all the loose talk about white racism, white Americans tend to like black Americans and want to do nice things for them; but as the generations go by, who exactly should qualify for Black Privilege?

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See also --- "Wentworth Miller and racial identity" (2011):

https://hailtoyou.wordpress.com/2011/10/04/wentworth-miller-and-racial-identity/

Wentworth Miller, ca. the late 2000s, assured people that he had "NEVER thought about trying to 'pass' as White." He was a popular actor at the time. He looks White.

His stressing about not desiring to 'pass' as White raises some questions about how racial-identity and the political situation were going by the 2000s.

Steve Sailer later identified the phenomenon as "Flight From White" (a 'Sailerism' coined in early 2013 and used very regularly thereafter). With Kamala, there is no Flight from White going on, although you could say there is in that she may have at least as much European as Subsaharan ancestry, and a large-supermajority of Non-Subsaharan total ancestry. But, no, with Kamala something else is going on, really, and a Sailerism for it is lacking.

(For a long time, that Wentworth Miller post was a steady traffic-getters to my website, until Google and others really throttled my website a few years ago, crashing baseline traffic by 95%...).

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Personally I think it's the same rules as if I wanted to identify as being a woman; I identify as black, therefore I am

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